r/teaching • u/WillowAny9768 • 1d ago
Vent UPDATE to my last post about my principal constantly ranting at staff and humiliating people in meetings: well, she finally tried it with me and I absolutely snapped back.
I’m the special ed resource teacher and was pushing into a 6th grade classroom. The regular ed teacher stepped out for a few minutes to make copies, so I was watching the class.
A brand-new 6th grader reached into his backpack, pulled out a pocketknife, and started showing another kid.
When I saw it, I immediately told him to put it down, got the other students away from him, and called administration.
My principal somehow turned that into ME being the problem.
She subsequently called me to her office and began screaming about how I was “responsible for that classroom” and how a student should never have been able to pull out a knife while I was supervising.
I said, “What exactly do you mean ‘able to’? He reached into his own backpack and pulled it out. Am I supposed to have X-ray vision?”
She then accused me of sarcasm and making excuses.
I tried to explain again.
She interrupted me AGAIN like she always does.
So I raised my voice right back at her, and rightly so.
I said, “NO. You are going to let me finish this time. I was covering that class for a few minutes while the teacher made copies. That child reached into his backpack and pulled something out with absolutely no warning. I saw it, I stopped it, and I called administration. Unless you expected me to search every backpack before she walked out of the room, tell me what the hell you expected me to do.”
She screamed, “DO NOT RAISE YOUR VOICE AT ME.”
I yelled back, “THEN STOP RAISING YOURS AT ME.”
Then I told her exactly what I’ve wanted to tell her for months.
“You talk to everybody in this building like we’re stupid. You interrupt people, embarrass people in meetings, and the second anybody pushes back, suddenly they’re ‘disrespectful.’ You were a teacher once. You have completely forgotten where you came from. And if this is how you think leadership works, you should not be a principal.”
She completely lost it.
She told me was "insubordinate" and said, “I don’t give a damn about the SPED shortage. I will write you the fuck up and make sure you never get another teaching job.”
I said, “There it is. You’re threatening somebody’s entire career because they finally stood up to you. And you wonder why people don’t respect you?”
I think that REALLY set her off.
I finally stood up and told her, “I’m done. You will not scream at me, threaten me, and then call me disrespectful because I defend myself. I’m not meeting with you alone again.”
This is the SAME principal from my last post who lost her mind because another staff member said, “Can I finish speaking?”
Now I understand completely.
She doesn’t want people to respect her. She wants people to be afraid to challenge her.
I’m filing a grievance because I am completely done with this woman.
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u/uller999 1d ago
Record and document everything.
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u/WillowAny9768 1d ago
I am. Today during dismissal duty she was literally glaring at me the entire time, like not even subtly. Every time I looked over she was staring directly at me and it felt so intentional after what happened. That was the only thing she did after the explosive interaction that I had with her, but I’m still writing it down because with everything else going on I don’t want to forget little things like that. I already had a horrible day with student behaviors and lack of support and ended up crying, so that on top of everything really got to me.
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u/ohhowcanthatbe 1d ago
Yep. If you don’t have your interaction recorded (c’mon, it may not be admissible but people will listen to it) then you need to get a legal pad and wrote page after page describing what happened in pen. Or you can write it and email it to yourself.
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u/Stardustchaser 1d ago
Copy and paste her post
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u/WillowAny9768 1d ago
Good idea, assuming you mean that I should copy and paste this post.
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u/Stardustchaser 1d ago
Yes I do sorry! Let what you wrote for your post be what you add for a formal account of your incident. If the dialogue of what she said and what YOU said is accurate to the best of your recollection, write it down, show your union rep or a trusted colleague so you have witnesses. Include date and time. Be as detailed as possible to CYA. Document document document. Good luck.
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u/Ok-Addition-1000 8h ago
Also, include the names of anyone in the office who may have overheard the conversation.
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u/Belkroe 13h ago
According to the OP this type of interaction with the principal is not a one off so there will be other staff members who can corroborate how this principal interacts with staff.
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u/WillowAny9768 5h ago
I failed to mention that after my explosive interaction with her in her office, she scolded the 6th grade teacher for making copies during school hours (lol). Apparently she wants us to make copies before or after school!
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u/Admirable-Jelly-8741 20m ago
If there is another staff member in the room than there is no harm in stepping out to make copies. That is ridiculous
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u/Zelb1165 1d ago
And people actually wonder why there’s a teacher shortage today. I am really sorry you went through that. I don’t know how my mother took 30 years of it. She retired in 1997, when some of the horrible changes in place today were just starting and all the experienced teachers kept saying they wouldn’t work, and many left, like my mother. She was an invaluable resource for the schools and they just didn’t didn’t care. It was a terrible time and now schools are stuck with a lot of things that were known to fail.
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u/loveshoes1 10h ago
veteran teacher here and current job seeker.
there is no teacher shortage. there are no jobs in central jersey or the five surrounding counties where i have been looking.
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u/WoodSlaughterer 9h ago
Seems that way, schoolspring says only a few in NJ,. but further north in massachusetts there are tons
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u/thatsillymaxxer 11h ago
Working with special needs kids is so draining too (very fulfilling but tiring). I did para for a couple of months before switching to substituting, similarly I had an old lady kind of question my credentials and call me incompetent and tell me that I shouldn’t be there (I was covering a long term absence and as you might be aware ESS subs really don’t get training for para, I was just doing it while I waited for my sub cert to come through and ended up staying longer bc there was a death in the family of one of the building paras). Anyways everyday this old lady would start talking to me behind closed doors (she wasn’t even in my group, she’d just help cover lunch breaks sometimes) and talk mad shit. I stood up to her one time and ended up crying angry tears and my principal (who honestly I love so much) and the rest of the staff in my group had a nice talk with me and told me how much they appreciate my efforts and that it was inappropriate of her to keep doing that. She had to issue an apology. Last time I was there as a sub she came into my room because I had two boys who needed extra help (they had learning disabilities it seems), and instead of helping those two boys she took my sub plans from my desk and started taking over the class. Actual clown.
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u/SnakePlantMaster 5h ago
And memorialize the original interaction via email. I was told to do that with difficult admin. After every interaction, I sent an email to the admin stating my recollection of the incident. It’s all about the receipts.
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u/Machadoaboutmanny 4h ago
See if you can get other staff to stand with you and share their experiences
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u/MindFluffy5906 1d ago
Good for you for standing up for yourself. In my old district, people like her would be promoted!
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u/ohhowcanthatbe 1d ago
‘Failing upwards’
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u/KonaGirl_1960 1d ago
In the business world, it’s called The Peter Principle: “People rise to the level of their incompetency and then stay there. “
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u/Appropriate-Water920 1d ago
I can see how some people get away with this, but it blows my mind how a principal in a public school in a state where there are strong unions thinks this will fly, especially post pandemic. We talk all the time at my school about how we used to be a little afraid of admin. After 2020, it became clear they need us more than we need them, and I don't think there's a single veteran teacher on staff who would come close to putting up with this. We'd be right there with you.
I do feel bad for our brethren in private, charter, and/or red state schools. I don't think I would stay in this job if I had to put up with this and wasn't able to fight back the way you describe.
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u/smalltownVT 1d ago
OP said in the previous post they are in North Carolina where they have some of the weakest unions in the US.
The principal doesn’t care about the teacher shortage, she’d rather be “right” (even though she’s not). She knows she’s weak and not great at her job, so she bullies her teachers to make herself look strong. She’s overly concerned about how things will appear to her higher ups (superintendent and school board I assume) so she’s trying to control everything.18
u/Appropriate-Water920 1d ago
Gotcha. That's tough. I gather from their post that they have just as bad a special ed teacher shortage as we do, so I'm glad they'll be able to find a job if they need to, but still, that sucks to have to think that way because of one a-hole.
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u/Soup2Nuts62 22h ago
I have often looked at a bad principal and thought, “I’ll be here when you’re long gone.”
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u/StunkyMunkey 1d ago
Well done for calling out poor behaviour. Hope others in the office heard the conversation too!!!
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u/SabertoothLotus 1d ago
Be hard not to if they were screaming at each other
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u/StunkyMunkey 1d ago
Well the principal could have been perched on their high and mighty ivory tower, which is a fair distance away from the gen pop. 😝
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u/Neither-Case-3374 1d ago
This sound like my kid’s principal. My kids have autism. And she’s such a bitch on a power trip.
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u/chargoggagog 1d ago
Are you in a union? This is absolutely the kind of thing they should be involved in, at the very least communicating it to her superiors.
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u/WillowAny9768 1d ago
North Carolina. That's all you need to know. 😩
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u/chargoggagog 1d ago
Ugh, horrendous. Unions should be a right not a privilege.
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u/WillowAny9768 1d ago
Agreed 1000%. I'm getting my ass out of this state by the end of next year.
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u/GoAwayWay 1d ago
Come to Virginia. Higher COL but way higher pay and we have collective bargaining in some districts.
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u/TallTeacher83 2h ago
I taught in VA for 10 years. Left 10 years ago. So maybe things are better now, but I would never teach there again. Learned a lot, but the unions there were weak, and expectations were ridiculous. I was at a pay freeze for 5 years and made less over that time due to increase in health insurance and mandated increase to retirement. NC to VA would be better, but not great.
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u/GoAwayWay 1h ago
Collective bargaining is only a few years old, so that part has changed in some school divisions. Mileage may vary depending on where in VA.
I am on year 15 in Virginia but know lots of people who were impacted by pay freezes. The freezes ended kind of right as I moved here, but raises were paltry for a bit.
In my district (Northern VA) I've gotten at least 6% increases for the last 6 years. Our superintendent also did some work to help "correct" steps in recent years.
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u/chargoggagog 1h ago
Wow that’s great, even in Massachusetts the superintendent usually works for the school committee and is all in on their side of negotiations.
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u/joobtastic 1d ago
Good.
I taught in NC for my first teaching job and bounced around schools before leaving the profession.
I went back in NY and it is a completely different experience.
NC is a bottom 5 state for teachers. It's awful.
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u/IndependenceKey4565 13h ago
Ugh, I'm sorry. As a fellow NC resource teacher, hope you can find a more supportive school.
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u/renonemontanez 1d ago
She sounds like Satan incarnate
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u/Bulky-Web5311 1d ago
So she’s trying to be an admin as if she was a coach in the 90’s.
What a prick of a human being.9
u/Suspicious-Wasabi377 1d ago
Are you saying she has NEVER taught in the classroom?? I was a PE Teacher for 10years and never thought in a million years that I would move into admin without also spending time in a classroom. I have since taught Sped , 2nd, 3rd, and currently 4th grade and would feel adequately prepared to be an admin. Covid changed all that in a heartbeat. My mentor principal who kept talking to me about becoming an admin, explained that he had to be available 24/7 to parents and anyone else. I decided NOPE!! Plus, there are some absolutely idiot, demanding, and pain in the ass parents that I’m certain I would lose my shit on and just go off. Good for you to standing up to the bully principal. She sounds like a horrible admin and someone higher up needs to get involved.
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u/gm1049 1d ago
Omg, as soon as I started reading this it reminded me of a past principal we had. She bullied everyone and was a complete nightmare. She tried it with me once and I went right back after her. I just looked for her name online and she's a principal in North Carolina🤨 Her initials are TG.
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u/JumboNoodle Life Scholar & Future Educator 1d ago
OP, does this track?? 👀 inquiring minds must know!
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u/Desperate_Owl_594 Second Language Acquisition | MS/HS 1d ago
Report her to the DOE and you have documentation from before to support you.
Absolutely ridiculous behavior.
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u/amscraylane 1d ago
Is there a letter /h/ in this person’s name and do they have a southern accent?
I swear this is verbatim my ex-principal.
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u/Roboticpoultry 1d ago
In this situation if they wrote me up I’d be refusing to sign the write up form and walking out the door
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u/Norahime85 1d ago
What is with principals throwing around the word “insubordination”. My principal threw this word around the 2nd you didn’t agree with him. He really needed to look up that word in a dictionary. Explaining yourself is not insubordination. I got out of that school at the end of the year. I couldn’t take it.
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u/Stardustchaser 1d ago
Sounds like two of the three principals I worked under in San Diego. Bitch, no.
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u/thecooliestone 1d ago
You should have recorded the meeting. Next best thing is emailing a summary of what happened including you leaving because she yelled at you. Then spare a thought to the poor kids she taught. People like her are why parents believe we really just love messing with kids and yelling at them
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u/Agreeable_Sleep2942 1d ago
It might help to have others write statements as well, that way HR won’t be able to write it off as a one off thing (still not acceptable behavior obv).
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u/Accomplished_Ad2351 1d ago
Glad to hear you’re filing a grievance. From now on, do NOT communicate with her without union representation. CC all emails to your site rep, grievance chair, and union president.
Your admin is completely unsuited to any leadership role. In addition to common sense violations of courtesy and respect, there are probably dozens of contract violations she has been pulling. I wouldn’t be surprised to discover she has no more than a cursory understanding of the contract. The paper trail you and your colleagues build, of her own actions, will kill her administrative career.
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u/NerdyTeacher77 1d ago
To piggyback that thought, if you are NOT in a union, ask for a non-biased individual to record notes of the next meeting. IIRC that’s within Federal workers’ rights, but I’m not positive. Ideally, another administrator, or perhaps your district supervisor. It’s worth a shot anyway. I feel for you!!
Edit: correct wording, b/c it’s Friday and I’m f’ing tired.
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u/Significant_Menu_313 1d ago
Write that conversation down, word for word before you forget it. No narration, just what was actually said.
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u/TheExLeftCoastGirl 1d ago
Holy crap I worked for someone like this. She only liked two people in our building, both of whom coached winning teams. She was heinous
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u/applegoodstomach 1d ago
I don’t think I need to tell you this but in case it is helpful for anyone, the moment you get out of a meeting like this you write down everything you can remember. If anyone may have heard or saw something ask what it was and write down what they say. Memory is fickle and the longer you wait the less accurate may be. I am a fan of having a physical notebook to write these things in and it living in my backpack that goes home with me every time I walk out of the school. Don’t leave this notebook in your classroom. Then, you call your union. Get everything in writing, even if you have to email them with your notes or recollection and ask for confirmation. Do this from your personal email, or at least cc/bcc your personal email address. Print out anything in your work email about the situation immediately - the district owns your work email and has the ability to delete things from it. If you are feeling anxious reach out to your medical doctor or mental health provider as soon as possible. Most will write a note for a teacher to take a few days off for mental health reasons. Put this in your notes too. Document everything.
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u/growvalue 22h ago
That sounds like a leadership problem, not a you problem. The principal is blaming you for what happened in your classroom, but the knife came into their building, and they're the one who sets and enforces school policy. If other students saw it, families probably already know or soon will. The right move is to deal with the student directly and remind the whole school about the code of conduct, not to put it on the teacher. I'd also write down your account of what happened and when, just to protect yourself and either print or save it on a non-school/district account).
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u/paperprintss 20h ago
My question is if you’re responsible for that child being able to pull that out of their backpack in a classroom, despite the fact that you didn’t know it was there. Wouldn’t she then be responsible for allowing that child to bring it onto the premises in the first place?
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u/SaltingPeppaPig 1d ago
I’m glad you stood up for yourself. I hope other teacher colleagues will stand up with you.
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u/No-Basket-1052 1d ago
Wow . . . that is insane. I've worked with some poor principals, but yours takes the cake. I would literally copy/paste what you wrote here to your union rep and your are absolutely correct when you told her you will refuse to meet with her alone. She is ridiculous. Don't meet with her alone and keep contact through e-mail. Record meetings with your phone.
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u/furbalve03 16h ago
I did something similar to my admin at the beginning of this semester. I think she's afraid of me now or more likely she knows I could file a grievance for her creating a hostile workplace and have been holding out. She has left me completely alone ever since.
I hope lt all works out for you. Life is too short to have a shitty boss.
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u/nard_dog_ 1d ago
I'm really proud of you for standing up for yourself. I hope everything turns out okay.
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u/purplishfluffyclouds 1d ago
I’m just a sub, but the last time I stood up to someone - finally - for the first time in my life (at the age of 58, so I’ve put up with a lot of shit in my life), to being barked at, I ended up getting fired.
I sincerely hope your situation fares better than mine. And FWIW, I applaud you for doing it. Everyone around you does as well I’m sure.
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u/TearAdventurous8994 1d ago
Woooowwwww FTB!!!! Good for you for standing up to a tyrant! I don't understand what makes people think they can talk to people that way.
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u/JungleJimMaestro 1d ago
Bravo. I have been lucky that my two principals have been/are great to work with.
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u/MomDadlovesU 21h ago
If she tries to threaten your career, do not be afraid to let the union step in. I used union lawyer x2 last year. My last supervisor- regional SPED coordinator threatened my career. Nothing happened. I got a job within a day I was interviewed.
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u/queenfrostine20 15h ago
Not a current teacher but also just had a similar experience with my superior. I'm sorry you are dealing with this and honestly good for you for standing up for yourself. This is why people leave and toxic work environments seems to be more prevalent right now.
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u/cowghost 14h ago
Id fo more then that. Demand the union investigate workplace harrasment and file a complaint with the state. Do not comprimise.
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u/Just-Lab-1842 14h ago
Take this as far as you can. We got a principal to resign when district admin found out what was going on.
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u/burtbomber716 13h ago
Good standing up for yourself. Had a principal like that for a few years...he's gone now thankfully. Someone else's problem. Weak people think screaming givea them power..
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u/HamRadio_73 13h ago
Record and document the hostile work environment. Go to the school board if necessary.
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u/RetiredHomeEcTchr 12h ago
I guess you are in a school that does not scan students and their possessions when entering the building? Maybe time to institute that precaution, though not suggesting it's your call.
Good for you for standing up to this bully.
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u/Which-Notice5868 12h ago
I can't tell from your comments if you don't have a union at all or your union is weak. If the latter Weingarten rights still apply and you are entitled to have a union rep with you in any meeting that could lead to discipline.
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u/Live-Cartographer274 12h ago
I’m sorry you went through that, glad you’re following through and also, thank you for keeping the kids safe.
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u/Expensive-Cash5926 12h ago
I tried that. I was gone in 3 months. She went on a vendetta about me. I was the only one to stand up to this horrible boss but she evaluated my work, downgraded all I did, sabotaged me and then fired me. There can be serious consequences out of your control!
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u/Practical-Bedroom687 11h ago
Enlist your other staff members to join you and the union file a grievance on behalf of several employees integrity building for creating a hostile and toxic work environment on behalf of the union vs anyone individual.
This will get HRs attention. The union may want to add statements or portions thereof of what has transpired in that building to the faculty and staff under her leadership.
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u/MaryShelleySeaShells 11h ago
Good for you!!! I had a principal who was a total c***, too. This was so satisfying to read. I don’t understand how people like this are in leadership positions.
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u/loveshoes1 10h ago
what? no metal detectors? where is this? and why on earth would you even think of meeting with her without a union????
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u/jlpnobsns 10h ago
Unfortunately, if it’s just you filing the grievance you are going to spend a lot of time and energy and get likely 0 result. I would encourage other teachers to join you in filing as a group - it is the only way to be taken seriously. I’ve personally known teachers with binders of evidence and records of incidents file grievances for being targeted and nothing ever happens to the principal.
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u/Sidehussle 10h ago
Bravo!!! Bravo!!!! You did GOOD!!! Write up everything from that meeting send to everyone including the superintendent. How dare she!!!!
I have seen teachers REMOVE principals many times in my career. Principals are support personell, they are not required at all.
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u/priest2705 10h ago
Good for you. Document everything and file a grievance. And, if you're a member of the union, you should reach out to your union rep as well
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u/christnroc 9h ago
Yeah, neither you nor anyone else should ever be alone with her...or heck with her at all...without your union rep.
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u/CaptainRengrave 9h ago
Sounds like you are the hero your staff needs right now. Nice job sticking up for yourself. Maybe your actions have broken the seal, and others are more likely to speak up now. Document everything, including your lost here, and take note of the friends and colleagues you spoke to about this while it was still fresh. Bullies hate being challenged, and that glare you received is proof that you got to her. High fives to you!
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u/Necessary-Quiet-Y 9h ago
Do you have a union that represents you? If you do not only file a grievance but add a letter saying you will only meet with her with a union rep present. Rally other teaching coworkers to see if any are interested in kicking this up a higher level like to the school board. Good luck she sounds like a nightmare.
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u/IamLuann 9h ago
OP PLEASE STAND YOUR GROUND!
Document EVERYTHING!
Get other teachers to Document EVERYTHING that has happened to them.
Make sure that the superintendent knows what is happening.
Maybe even take it to the school board during a public meeting. Good Luck.
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u/FugitiveDoctorMan 9h ago
Uncle taught middle school for 40 plus years, and I doubt he'd ever put up with something like this.
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u/pilgrimsole 8h ago
Good for you! 🙌 This post was so satisfying to read. Bullies never anticipate people standing up to them, but standing up to bullies is exactly what's required.
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u/Ok-Addition-1000 8h ago
Too many people don't know or care about the difference between fear and respect.
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u/Sbinar 7h ago
All I can say is that she sounds just horrible. Having been blessed with good principals and hearing stories like yours is what prompted me to go for my M.Ed, because I think education needs more ethical leaders who care about teachers, not people on a power trip who forget both where they came from and that they’re essentially just mid-level managers.
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u/BleedSparta 7h ago
You’re not in a union huh? California teachers would’ve all walked out and had her on suspension in 24 hours 👀
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u/Snoo58504 5h ago
Call your union rep and get that grievance started. You do NOT want it at the building level you go right to district HR!
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u/OkieTheatreTeacher 4h ago
Do you have Teachers Union in your building? As a Union Rep, I love walking into those meetings with our Legal Team and immediately starting with, "so here's how we're doing to do this..." Keep holding her ass accountable!
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u/ParsnipsYum 3h ago
Consider speaking into your phone for example with Apple you can use Notes start a new note with incident name n date ( just keep a running log in one note) Hit the microphone button in lower right corner and speak - somehow much easier this way!! Now save as a pdf in multiple locations
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u/cherbear2005 3h ago
What a horrible way to lead. If you want a productive team you treat them with respect. Nobody is going to have her back if she’s going to Bully grown ass adults. The only thing that behavior guarantees is that her staff all have updated resumes. Glad you stood up to her and hopefully your peers will follow suit. She is promoting shit morale, hard to stay positive around this. I hope there’s a change soon.
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u/PavoticArt 3h ago
This reminds me…I saw an Admin berate the classroom staff for 1 minute escort of a student who was getting physical to the office to calm down. She then wrongly called it a restraint and aggressively tried to file paperwork with ISBE.
Not knowing the difference between a restraint and an escort when she’s not SPED is one thing, but calling everyone into the office and being aggressively wrong about it and never apologizing really rubbed the staff the wrong way. It’s hard when people who are in a position of responsibility are more worried about their power than doing what is right by the staff and students.
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u/No-Vegetable-9477 2h ago
What a wild story! Good for you 💪 Don’t ever let someone disrespect you like that. So unprofessional
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