That's how I feel about battle royales. Best way to win is to camp. At least in extraction shooters I can be rewarded for survival and carry progress across raids.
Honestly firestorm was the best BR available at the time for anyone over 9yo. The problem was they didn’t make it free to play. Everyone that bought the game just wanted to play BF. It was a seperate development team working on the BR and because nobody played they scrapped it.
If they had made it free to play they could have sold twice as many copies of the full game.
it's just another investment for c-suite people. battlefield hasn't been made as a video game for years now, it's now a profit making machine and literally all of their actions are to those ends. that's why the game is shit and it's impossible to make it better at this point
I disagree because despite all the disagreements on gameplay, BF1 and BFV had so much character, like the animations, the lighting, sound, maps, and game modes? Man, they all made it feel so unique and cinematic to play. Getting knocked on your ass mid firefight with a guy (who also got knocked down) by a V2 rocket that didn't kill you as the building in front of you it hits crumbles to bits is so fucking cool. I miss it.
Anybody with this criticism is damaged by cod. Nobody is making you sprint spastically into the battle and die. Its ok to slow down.
You dont and then you blame the game.
I have played battlefield since bf1942. I have played call of duty since it came out. I really hate how call of duty plays these days. Its spastic lunacy. Bf6 just isn't even close to the same.
You will die a lot if you sprint around like crazy though because why wouldnt you lol.
And the smaller the group gets the more stacked everyone's loadout gets. If you avoid all action your loadout will be junk and you eventually get smoked.
My friends and I enjoy battle royales bc it feels good to go against other players and have a challenge in our games, then we chill out with Minecraft or something, I dont know anyone who plays fortnite or warzone to really just "win" it's just an easy way for us to hang out while doing something stimulating
This is why I play The Finals. Great teamwork is incentivized, constant head to head with other teams, but little of the waiting/camping of battle royales
Ohh I totally get what your saying, some times the games really do just get slow and then your left in like a weird slog for a little while and then gets boring
Yeah I went back and played a game of apex, and I ended up waiting until like 10th until getting into an encounter, and the encounter ended so quickly that I didn’t get a chance to warm up and I was anxious from waiting. Battle royales just not for me anymore. The Finals forever
Hang out while doing something stimulating is the perfect way to phrase it. When I wanna just catch up with my siblings and shoot the shit, we boot up Fortnite haha
Back in the day when I played mostly competitive shooters it was mostly a way to hangout with friends. Once my gaming group got too busy for games and we stopped playing together I never really played multiplayer games anymore. It wasn't the game it was the friends.
The point is a battle royale isn’t you can’t camp. I guess you can drop in the middle then jerk off but then eventually you have to move. By then everyone else is more stacked then you though.
That’s why imo Apex is the only battle royal worth playing atm, because it rewards you for being aggressive so much that camping makes it almost impossible to win
I have tried quite many extraction shooters but Helldivers 2 was the last straw for me. After that I have avoided all of them. Oh and I remember that at the time of Helldivers 2 release the community was circlejerking over it 24/7. It was cringe.
I didn't really like Helldivers that much. I played a ton of escape from tarkov when it was still good, The Hunt Showdown, and Cycle Frontier were some of my favorites. Even the COD DMZ mode was actually okay despite it being a watered down extraction game. Unfortuntely I think the only polished experience for it out there is probably Helldivers and Hunt.... but that comes at the cost of loss of excitement for surviving. In Hunt or Helldivers I can just die 300 times in a row and it doesn't matter. However in Tarkov / Cycle similar extraction games surviving was huge for the account. Really high high's and really low low's that can't really be replicated in other games.
Yeah people complaining about camping in battle royals sound ridiculous to me , there's all these people , we all get one life , Im not at a beast at these shooting games but if I can survive until the end at least, then I'm happy enough but I'd rather play battlefield.
best way to win a battle royale is to not care about dying, play enough that you understand the gameplay loop and how to get kills, then get lucky with some starting items on a run and kill a bunch to get the best gear, hunting the under-equipped campers down until you win.
the biggest hurdle is the initial fear you have of dying, and equating dying with losing. it’s more about seeing everything there is to see and getting as far as you can each time. at least a battle royale wipes the slate clean so your failures don’t compound on each other
Project Zombie, my friends left me alone for years playing that game, and without play any games that i like, for playing with ma friends i try the game month a go, the worst crafting that i touch on a game, and like in real life i die all the time cause y didn’t know how to clean glasses of my arm
Great game, horrible crafting, but not for me
I mean, winning by camping sucks though. The reason people like battle royales is for the dream of racking up a high kill count and going out as the top dog. People who really hate extraction shooters are just bad at video games where they need to actually outplay humans who don't have mechanics they can abuse. Small disclaimer that I'm not saying they are bad at all video games, the sentence continues after that with an additional qualifier.
See I used to enjoy BRs because camping and playing smart was feasible up until around 2020 where everyone became an absolute demon in their respective games.
When is the last time you played a Battle Royale? PUBG in 2018? A lot of them don’t boil down to just camping. Try camping in Apex and you’ll get laughed at
I like battle royales cause most of the time my friends and I just play like psychopaths and pick don’t even try getting first, when we do play cautiously it feels like a stealth mission in enemy territory, it’s not for everyone but I enjoy it.
The only difference between a extraction shooter and a battle Royales is you can extract and keep your gear but other then that it’s the same thing drop in loot up get some kills load up next game
While i do not like Battle Royale or PvP games, I do play a battle royale game called Super Animal Royale and always play their other non-battle royale modes… and keep playing because it looks too cute >,<
That sounds fun. I'm mostly targeting the big BR's when I say I don't like the style. I'd play a goofy indie game a few times if it's fun or has a good gimmick.
Not to white knight CoD because there is a LOT the franchise does wrong, but one of the things I really like about Warzone is the way that it pushes players to NOT camp and rewards them for it.
The contract system is amazing for that.
Do Scavengers for a nice money reward and guaranteed armor satchel, and do so at minimal risk of drawing attention from other teams, albeit at a greater expense of time compared to some other contracts.
Do Recons for a slightly lower money reward and quicker contract for guaranteed intel on the next circle location (which can stack if you do multiple), albeit at the risk of drawing opponents to your location as you try to “hold the point”.
Do Bounties for a greater money reward and info on an opponent’s location, albeit with the reward tied behind pushing an engagement with another player/team, sometimes at a location that’s advantageous to them.
Do Most Wanteds for a reverse Bounty that puts a target on your head for a very significant reward (large money reward + drop crate with guaranteed gas mask and perks + returning all your teammates to the fight), albeit at the expense of every player in the game knowing your X/Y coordinates until it expires (with the one saving grace being that the timer goes down any time you open a loot crate or kill another player).
And that’s not even all the contracts in the game (or “objectives” for that matter).
Combine that with how many potentially game swinging rewards you can get by spending in-game money at buy stations and you have a lot of reason to engage with the optional objectives the game offers, as well as try to kill other players to take their loot and money.
Warzone is far from perfect, but they’ve honestly done a lot to improve it over the years, including solving a lot of the issues with verticality being so strong by introducing things like grapples to quickly traverse to heights/Bunker Busters to push opponents out of power positions even if they’re beneath a roof/wall jumping to open new opportunites to make your way into certain structures in unexpected ways/etc.
Still, I’d love to see a new BR take a lot of what Warzone does right while taking lessons from what it’s done wrong, and take off because of it.
Ye but you aren rewarded by camping in BR games, you are actively cornering yourself and the longer the game goes on, the more it goes against your favor. Noobs camp in every genre of shooter, its just a fact.
I've definitely had my volume too high before and almost jumped out of my chair when a grenade or gunfire went off. Also some bosses can scare the crap out of you if you didn't know they were in the raid before they pop up in your face.
I would not put that in the same category. Just like I wouldnt put helldivers 2 in that category.
Extraction shooters have a pvp element and when you die you lose the stuff you brought permanently. So you have to go get more stuff to bring more stuff to go get more stuff. No or very slow resl progress.
i don't think the pvp element is necessary. its the most common form, because we're still in that stage where every extraction shooter is literally just "tarkov, but...", but its not *necessary*.
there's an extraction "shooter" that just got its demo out called Expedition: Into Darkness, and it's going for "tarkov, but with swords and only PVE". still has multiplayer, but its only cooperative.
I guess we're opposite sides of the same coin- the fact my shit could get taken at any moment was the only reason that shit mattered in the first place.
Take away the threat of PvP and for me the game had nothing
I hated shooter games for a long time when I thought all shooters were competitive pvp, until Deep Rock Galactic became the 1st shooter game I’ve played. I’m a big fan of coop multiplayer and Minceraft.
Wdym succeed by not playing? The goal each round is pretty much to get good loot, either looting high value areas, killing the robot enemies or other players. For all three you have to play the game.
I've never really understood this take. You don't succeed by hoarding wealth and having the biggest vault, you succeed by doing the story and hitting whatever progression goals the game sets out for you (Kappa/Expeditions/VIP).
Succeed by not playing? Thats just not true at all. I’m assuming you’re just over exaggerating, but I still have no clue what you’re talking about. You have to play the game in extraction shooters to progress.
Extraction shooters have always given me the impression someone played Borderlands but wanted to make their own version that was significantly worse by combining roguelite elements.
Is that really fair? It’s a genre people like for sure but…
I would argue the genre is too popular for reasons that people are misled by like social enjoyment or whacky circumstances. I’ve yet to see a game driven by prox chat not have unhinged antisocial behavior lol.
I think by their nature extraction shooters are for people who enjoy high stakes gameplay and masochism lol. There’s a reason why everyone plays when there is a wipe in Tarkov and it’s because the climb and loot aggregation loop is fun. The problem is how do you design a satisfying end game for the have’s and one that the have nots will want?
BR games have a micro version of this every match. Get loot, accumulate resources, use them to win or have scrappy from behind victories.
Extraction shooters make everyone actually play Battle Royale. Battle Royales make everyone sit and do nothing. Will therefore sitting and doing nothing make everyone play extraction shooters?
You succeed by having fun in the moment because the stakes are higher, which makes the fights more intense.
The losses are bigger and the wins are bigger.
Thats just not right, its ok to not like a gameplay loop, but its not that if you dont like it, is shit.
Me and so much people loved it, so its objectively not shit.
Hunt Showdown is an amazing extraction shooter that I really encourage a lot of people to try. It has very little farming (which is something I dislike) and losing your equipment is not as punishing.
Disagreeing with you on the rationale. Knowing when to withdraw and hide isn’t “not playing” anymore than not going full Rambo in a stealth game isn’t “not playing”.
I absolutely agree, sitting in a corner is a shitty gameplay loop. Ans that is exactly why you don't sit in a corner, and actually play the game, that's the fun part
Thats for battle royale not extraction shooters. The point of them is to fet good loot and you only get that by playing, looting and killing. You can extract with nothing but then its pointless to jump in a match if all you care about is extracting
I love extraction shooters but idk why a million people dead ass thought this game was gonna be something so revolutionary I knew 100% it was gonna lose all its players when people really understood its gameplay loop
Eh, I like Hunt: Showdown because it mitigates a lot of those issues. You killed the boss and extraction campers are doing their thing? We gave you 5 secs of wall hacks and a proximity sensor that doesn't give you direction. Hate the Apex "I revived my teammate 106 times this fight. Straight skill bro, fsfs," well Hunt has limited revives tied to how much health you're willing to risk.
I’m almost the same except I play Hunt: Showdown all the time. Maybe has to do with the lax economy of the game, which means I don’t have to worry about losing stuff.
Hunt: Showdown is great though, and I don't even like other extraction shooters. There's an active timer for the match, and a goal for every team to achieve so you either don't make it out alive or don't gain anything if you just do nothing.
The only extraction shooter that ive been playing is bo7 endgame because its easy enough to be enjoyable without having to deal with pvp and has a better gameplay loop than just show up, loot things, and leave
Honestly I have a tinfoil theory that extract games were psy oped by big gaming cuz they looked at the success of battle royals but thought, how can we include more grind and false scarcity? Well what if instead of them unlocking things throughout playing that they will always have access to in the future, they can lose it all anytime they actually play with those items? Cha Ching! 🤑☂️💸💵💰haha
Play no room in hell, it’s not a traditional extraction shooter in the sense it’s not PvP. It’s an 8 player PVE game where you have to do objectives and survive npc zombie hordes before doing your extract mission. Completely changed my perspective on what extraction shooters should be.
The world and lore behind arc raiders is so great, it’s such a fascinating concept and it ties into being an extraction shooter so well. The problem is that extraction shooters in general have such an unfulfilling gameplay loop. Like being an avid gamer my whole life, the fact that progression in any game sorta doesn’t mean anything, it feels like an active waste of time when your only goal is to have gear to make the thing you were already doing a little easier.
Yeah i couldn't understand the appeal of Arc Raiders gameplay. It felt like i was just walking around collecting scraps and then getting killed randomly. I just didn't understand why was i supposed to care about what i was extracting or losing what i collected.
Maybe you already know this but for anyone else reading along: here’s a whole progression loop with arc raiders. Every item you gather can either be sold for credits or used to craft items. In order to craft items, you will have to level your benches using certain items found topside. You also find blueprints topside which allow you to craft better weapons (which can also be leveled, attachments, shields, backpacks, health measures. From there the game branches. You can either lean into big-arc hunting and get really great at soloing giant arc like the matriarch and harvester, or you can lean into PvP which is where being able to craft new gear and recycle other materials you’ve gathered into further kits really comes in handy. So why care about what you’re extracting/losing? Because that’s the only way you get the better gear so you’re the one doing the killing, be it arc or other players.
From what i've played and can remember, i wanted to have a taste of the good stuff before i spent hours grinding scrap that i could lose at any moment before i cared about it.
I just feel like the loot should l've been more interesting....
That's why arc is a little different. instead of pure slaughterfest (like tarkov, marathon) you can socialise with people to kill something way bigger than you ever could. The pvpve aspect is what makes it interesting.
I mean I have had a few really surprising momments of socialization in tarkov, it happens more than you think. Got escorted to extract by friendly scavs when I was learning a new map and trying to do a quest.
I disagree on the lore. It is drip fed so slowly and disjointedly from fetch quests that I genuinely think they might be better off as a seasoned full-motion-video explaining the lore rather than getting half a paragraph's worth of lore every other quest
Arc Raiders at release date was something magical. Me and my buddy were addicted and would play it a few hours each night doing the quests and teaming up with lobbies to kill big ARC. Once people were comfortable though it was just getting shot in the back of the head while engaging ARC.
Wish there was a similar game that was PVE oriented. We haven’t played since we got tired of the constant PVP. (Yes I know the game is PvPvE.. that’s why we stopped).
So many PvP games are so fun at the start, but a couple months in when people know maps, best camping spots, best exploits, best strats etc etc it just gets boring. I enjoy the chaos/random bullshit at the start, and then get bored once metas become the norm
So true. Same story here, would play it every night with my girlfriend. But it didn't take long for people to figure out that the safest play was extraction camping — not that I blame them — and for us, that killed the fun... That, and the community can be insufferable at times. SEA servers are also just downright mysogynistic and later on it just seemed like the devs were giving up on the game. We later started getting wacky, goofy call-of-duty-esque outfits that was just out of place (the kind of oddities they'd promised earlier to never add), uncalled-for balancing patches, and it felt like the dev team really lost grip of what made the game magical at launch.
Me and my buddy always brought a hatch key, cause we didn’t trust anyone. They were cheap and easy to get so we would just take turns bringing one each round. The few times we forgot one we were very careful with approaching an extract. Still ran into a few campers though.
We both quit playing shortly after the first expedition reset. The novelty had already worn thin and our last straw was a group bringing the cloaks to avoid ARC aggro and killing me and my friend while we were killing a Bastion. Never booted up again after that. The cosmetics always seemed to miss more often than not from what we saw while we were still active. I bought one outfit and never had any desire to pick anything else they put out.
Not a shooter but there’s an extraction medieval fantasy game I’m enjoying at the moment called expedition into darkness. It’s just a demo on steam at the moment but it’s got great atmosphere and no PvP.
it’s very content dry and the one thing that’s supposed to keep it someone fresh (pvp) has been all but designed out of the game from a mixture of player bitching and embarks refusal to fix the hacks lol
Instead of having a dynamic raid every time you go in where player interactions shake up the formula, you either have players doing the same loot runs uncontested on the same maps over and over or you are unable to play the game because of hackers and ABMM, which the remaining players want and love, prevent you from being anywhere in the middle lol
I fell off after 2012~. Games just lost their fun for me. I was only really into FPS and RTS games and the last I played were quake 3 / UT series / Killing Floor and Starcraft II.
Just EDM for me these days directly from the back of the mixer my friends are playing out of.
Thats funny we are the complete opposite. I generally played multi-player games up until 2015 than realized I was just getting stressed and annoyed when I played, so I switch to my passion when I was younger which was RPGs/single player and now all I play are single player games and im enjoying every second of it. Plus my backlog is always like 5 games deel with new one coming out constantly so ill never be bored.
Last single player ish I got into was sonic and mega man series. After I started computer gaming it was multiplayer only until I stopped playing games entirely.
Arc Raiders was actually pretty sick, it was cool how the enemies were really dangerous and quite a few of them being pretty interesting or weird like the Leaper with the legs. I remember I got him trapped underground and took him down solo with shitty ahh gear. Or even the spider guys that can jump you in groups are cool
Arc Raiders being my first extraction shooter was a LOT of fun for me. Getting the platinum trophy ended my run for it though. I had my fun, got my platinum, made a few friends along the way and have moved on to other games.
The journey being a few hundred hours was well worth it.
FACTS. I remember when it was going to be PVE, then they changed it to PVPVE and I lost interest because it was going to bring over the sweats and Battle Royale players who just shoot on sight
I got 40h out of it before I felt it was too grindy and stressful. Money well spent in my book but I wouldn't go back. I think there's beauty in accepting that however and not having a need to go apeshit like the guys with 2000h on Tarkov.
Same. It is a well built game but I friggin hate the idea of extraction shooters. I just don't understand the point of the game if all you do is lose your stuff every single time you play it. It's even worse if you aren't one of the sweaty players. You just never get any where and your stuck using the free load outs the whole time.
Game was straight 🚮. No story mode, the gun accuracy was horrible I felt like a Storm Trooper. You couldn’t trust people, some machines were unbeatable and so much more
This. Never understood why people enjoy these type of extraction games where you loose absolutely everything on death so you just end up hoarding any decent stuff.
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u/travnigma Aug 19 '26
Arc Raiders