r/videogames • u/TheDuckClock • Sep 10 '26

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This is just wild. PlayStation wanted to end their partnership with Hideo Kojima. So Xbox was like: "Your loss."

This year is really starting to feel like an inverse of 2014 when Xbox ruined their public image with some insane Always Online DRM requirements and PlayStation capitalized on that.

4.1k Upvotes

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651

u/PyrocXerus Sep 10 '26

PlayStation got comfy being the big dog of the consoles and though they were untouchable

182

u/Internal_Swing_2743 Sep 10 '26

Thing is, Sony apparently walked away, not Kojima. So what the hell is going on?

174

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

The project was getting expensive and Death Stranding 2 underperformed so Sony backed out before this sinking anymore money they wouldn't get back. At least that's my guess

51

u/Burstrampage Sep 10 '26

To be more specific, DS2 “underperformed” in the context of not hitting the sales targets Sony wanted. I have no doubt in my mind death stranding 2 made a profit, maybe even one considered good by many of us, just not in sonys eyes because they are stupid

71

u/EvocativeReach Sep 10 '26

I mean did you see Ds2? Hollywood cast, expensive motion capture, hollywood level cutscenes.

I cant be convinced 2 million sales is anywhere near paying for that. I also dont think they would bin Kojima as long as his financials were at least very slightly green. He was likely deep in the red with them.

8

u/cochese25 Sep 10 '26

Insofar as I'm aware, Sony hasn't really published the sales figures for the game, but best data shows that DS2 surpassed 2 million sales on the back of the PC port's 425,000 sale in its first week.
And that was back in March. It's had over 5 months since then to sell and insofar as I can tell, nobody has put out any numbers of how many it's sold. The only thing I could find was that the PC port's release had a positive effect on the sales of the PS5 version, increasing them week over week.

You got an up to day number on that?
Also, those same reports that tout 2 million in sales back then, also were saying the game reached parity with production costs and such. So you don't need to be convinced if that's what the facts are. Unless you're just going to cherry pick which numbers you want to believe from the people putting the numbers out.

That has nothing to do with Sony's decision, mind you. It could be they weren't satisfied with the sales or it could be that they've been burned over and over by big studio games and wanted to cut off before they ended up with another Marathon situation.

I don't really care either way. I didn't play either game, not really a fan of the MGS series and don't hold Kojima to any particularly high regard. But I don't particularly like numbers flying around that lack substantial backing for them that are also months out of date

10

u/RandomCatgif Sep 10 '26

You guys seriously overvalue the costs of motion capture. It is the CHEAP option, not animating everything by hand to the same quality

11

u/SloppityMcFloppity Sep 10 '26

Yeah, but kojima was out here using A Listers for motion capture.

-1

u/RandomCatgif Sep 10 '26

okey but then it is not the mo cap that is expensive but the actors and that is why I corrected them, they said the mo cap is expensive when in reality mocap is the easiest, cheapest and highest quality combo possible

-9

u/Burstrampage Sep 10 '26

I won’t pretend like I know how much all of that costs individually, but I think they were in the green somewhat. Typically being casted in a video game does net nearly the same amount of money compared to tv shows and movies.

I think motion capture, the salaries of everyone that was on the project, and marketing would be the killer. I do fully believe Sony would trash him even if he is slightly in the green though.

The unfortunate part of all this is Sony realistically gets to have their cake and eat it too. Now they don’t have to incur the development costs of kojima and still reap some of the benefits by simply having his games on their platform. I think that might be the real reason he was dropped. Why keep him when it’s not guaranteed he’ll make a ton for you when you can just drop him and still take a cut from his games?

39

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

Idk, only 2 million sales. Between production costs for the physical version, Steam/retail cuts, games bought on sale... It'd be optimistic to say the game made $100 million and plenty AAA games have a higher budgets than that.

26

u/Advanced_Gold1290 Sep 10 '26

Not to mention some of the PHYSINT rumors involve some pretty big actors, along with a partnership with Columbia Pictures for live action material.

I'm sure a current gen MGS successor would print money, but it is going to be a really fucking expensive project.

5

u/Clean_Cobbler_3438 Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26

A current gen MGS successor wouldn't print money.

Current gen MGS would.

Kojimbo's "audience" such as it is likes MGS. DS2 losing money is pretty much all the evidence we need to say that people don't really like Kojima's games, they liked Metal Gear Solid.

Sony saw the writing on the wall after DS2 lost money and bailed, simple as.

ETA for the mouth breathers downvoting- MGS∆ sold as much as DS2 did in a much shorter timeframe and with a much smaller budget. It's not fucking rocket science.

2

u/Kylel0519 Sep 10 '26

I mean DS2 was also a console exclusive until literally 6 months ago and console exclusivities sequels usually don’t preform well all the time, I mean ace combat 3 almost sunk the entire franchise

Not to say being exclusive is the ONLY reason it underperformed in sales was because it was an exclusive just that it doesn’t help

3

u/Clean_Cobbler_3438 Sep 10 '26

Right, except the 1st game sold more in its exclusivity window, and more copies on console generally. Problem is, it's not a great game, and people were on the "fool me once" mentality by then.

5

u/Sorry_Mastodon_8177 Sep 10 '26

There also the thing of people not knowing what the first game is like and a lot of people bought the game out of curiosity In the sequel only the people who liked the first game bought it Same thing happened with the division 1 and 2

1

u/originalfilmscoring Sep 10 '26

Speak for yourself. I thought both death stranding were great.

1

u/Clean_Cobbler_3438 Sep 10 '26

You're in the minority

1

u/originalfilmscoring Sep 10 '26

I suppose. I mean I’m not saying it’s a top selling game but the fans do like it. The second game reviewed a lot better too.

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1

u/Schwiliinker Sep 10 '26

The thing is in the past dozen years there’s been so many games that are crazy in terms of gameplay that any game that has relatively average gameplay while focusing on story and cinematics instead not selling great wouldn’t surprise me. PS3 era is when non S tier story heavy games were probably a much safer bet I think.

0

u/Corronchilejano Sep 10 '26

I am still befuddled that a game can make nearly $200M and still be considered a failure.

2

u/Skwalou Sep 10 '26

Well, I don't know actual numbers at all but if it cost $400M to make, then yes making $200M still makes it a financial loss and therefore a failure. I agree though that getting to a point where games cost so much that $200M of revenue is not enough to cover it is pretty ridiculous.

0

u/SmoothActuator8132 Sep 10 '26

it's simple math, 2 million sales is $120M in revenue at $60

1

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

It's not actually. The game retailed for $70. Digitally on PS5 those sales are straight for Sony. On Steam Sony/Kojima only get a 70% cut of those sales, so $49 per sale there. Physical copies then need to factor in the cost of printing the game as well as whatever store's cut of the sale (usually 10-20%) , so if we want to average that as $60 per sale, fine.

But then these are lifetime sales and Death Stranding 2 has been on sale multiple times. According to Deku Deals its all time low price has been about $40 on PS5, $48 on Steam and $30 physically. Who knows what percentage of the sales were at those prices

0

u/SmoothActuator8132 Sep 10 '26

I said revenue, not profit

1

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

And with sales it's still not a simple $60 per sale

0

u/SmoothActuator8132 Sep 10 '26

I don't think you know what revenue is, Steam and Sony don't take their cut out of each sale individually, the entirety of the sale goes to the publisher and one of their expenses is paying the storefronts their cut at the end of the fiscal year

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8

u/dope_like Sep 10 '26

Konami fired Kojima for going far over budget and timeline. And the production value of DS2 was very high. I’m not defending Sony but Kojima has a history of breaking budgets

1

u/WillemDafoesHugeCock Sep 10 '26

No solid numbers appear to exist but apparently the budget was around $150 million and surprisingly it barely broke even.

1

u/Vampiric_V Sep 10 '26

Projected budget of 150-300 million, sold 2 million copies. Being generous and assuming every copy sold is $80 and ignoring things like Valve taking a cut, that's still only 160 million. Barely a profit, most likely not profitable at all

1

u/bilbobagheadd Sep 10 '26

No doubt in your mind yet it only sold 2 million copies so didi n fact not make a profit

-1

u/iTyroneW Sep 10 '26

See Sony is used to losing 400 million dollars on live service slop like Concord and marathon.

Maybe the profit scared them?

2

u/seiryu1982 Sep 10 '26

Glad Sony backed out before releasing Concord /s

2

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

I know right? Physint will clearly bomb even worse

1

u/Spazm2026 Sep 11 '26

they should rerelase concord, people were busy during that weekend

2

u/Dry_Literature8018 Sep 10 '26

Stupid time to worry about that after sinking what must be at least a billion dollars into their failed live service venture, only to receive practically no return (hell, a majority of those projects won't even release). At least Death Stranding still has the possibility to sell a few copies going forward, unlike these other complete follies (and that's not even mentioning the Bungie acquisition, which was a total waste). Why, when Sony's been lighting money on fire to chase a stupid trend, do they draw the line at a highly respected industry auteur and an award winning Hollywood director collabing in a very popular genre?

-9

u/Mother_Bid_4294 Sep 10 '26

I wonder how much it costed them cause its very positive on steam and this was a bit after the ps5 release

40

u/Rishfee Sep 10 '26

"Performance" in this context doesn't mean quality. They wouldn't care if the game was universally panned if it moved 5X more revenue.

25

u/EquaYonah Sep 10 '26

The "very positive" doesn't matter as much as the 5953 number of reviews next to it. DS2 was a very expensive game to make and doesn't seem to have made a ton of money back. I imagine they looked at the budget for this new game and got cold feet.

10

u/Fat_Alphonse Sep 10 '26

The Hollywood cast alone was likely a huge percentage of the budget. The game may have reviewed well, but it only sold like 2 million copies between PS5 and PC, which is nothing for a AAA title.

9

u/ElonMusksQueef Sep 10 '26

Death Stranding sold 20 million copies. 2 sold 2 million. A “Very positive” STEAM review means absolutely nothing to PlayStation.

1

u/The_Border_Bandit Sep 10 '26

DS1 didn't sell 20 mil copies. The 20 mil figure comes users played which was largely boosted by releasing on Game Pass in 2022. The actual sales figures are in the neighborhood of 10 mil.

0

u/ElonMusksQueef Sep 10 '26

“Estimated at over 19 million copies sold globally by late 2024.”

https://news.northeastern.edu/2025/06/27/death-stranding-2-weird-games/

5

u/The_Border_Bandit Sep 10 '26

That article is misinterpreting the milestone that was announced. Kojima Productions announced that in late 2024, Death Stranding had reached 20 million "porters", not sales. That means 20 million people have played the game, not bought. That 20 million figure is gonna include people game sharing and playing on game pass. The actual sales figures are estimated to be around 10 mil at the max.

1

u/MissingScore777 Sep 10 '26

Yeah the big leak of internal sales numbers had it at 7mil only a couple of years before this.

No way it sold 13mil out of nowhere after having already been out 3/4 years.

9

u/Alib902 Sep 10 '26

Positive reviews doesn't mean sales

3

u/brandonsp111 Sep 10 '26

Steam has trained it's users to look at the wrong numbers lmao

3

u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo Sep 10 '26

5953 reviews kind of imply the copies sold is quite pathetic.

2

u/Glittering-Pin-1343 Sep 10 '26

It has sold 2 mil since release. While 1 has sold 27 mil this far. I think they expect the sequel to sell a bit more than 2 mil due to the first games sales.

3

u/The_Border_Bandit Sep 10 '26

DS1 sold around 10 mil, not 27 mil. 27 mil is how many people have played since the game released and that was largely boosted by game pass.

1

u/Mother_Bid_4294 Sep 10 '26

Is it 2 mil on pc only? Or total over ps5/pc release?

1

u/Glittering-Pin-1343 Sep 10 '26

Total sales as far as I know. Was 5 months ago so might've sold more since.

1

u/hippie_harlot Sep 10 '26

In all fairness, review scores do not equate to sales performance.

1

u/Sorry_Mastodon_8177 Sep 10 '26

Show cod 3 reception aswell

23

u/idkimhereforthememes Sep 10 '26

As much as people are making a massive deal out of this, kojima games don't sell shit. DS2 sold like 2m copies after going to steam with a much bigger budget than games like astrobot or yotei, both of those games sold like 5m copies each as console exclusives

9

u/EvocativeReach Sep 10 '26

At only 2 million sales theres no way DS1 made a profit. At 5 million sales I’m skeptical whether DS 1 made a profit either, and if it did it was very small. Kojima games have Hollywood budgets and their playerbase was going in the wrong direction.

I guess Sony decided to call it time. Meanwhile a Kojima game is a golden chalice to Xbox who have been dogged with having no games for basically a decade now if not over.

0

u/n1keym1key Sep 10 '26

Your post was great until that last line. Showed your sony pony colours there.

2

u/EvocativeReach Sep 10 '26

No, you’re just getting defensive for no reason.  Xbox has lacked that definitive system selling game for far too long, and I’m not sure how this can be disputed. Even Asha Sharmer has been open in saying their priority needs to be on making system selling exclusives.

11

u/Grayman103 Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26

Kojima doing the usual at getting in high places of power within good graces then immediately making insanely over-budgeted games and getting chased off for it.

No one ever actually explains why P.T got canned and got him fired at Konami. Imagine getting off the phone that Kojima once again wants more money for MGS 5 that’s already 80 million in budget (fucking insane for a game at the time, especially a Japanese game) then immediately getting another call that not only has he started a silent hill project without permission. He already got a lot of expensive set up. Junji Ito as an artist at his peak of popularity. And already put a demo out before any of the higher ups even caught on.

Dude is legit a jackass. If this is the Jordan Peele game i wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him a blank check and regretted it.

1

u/altezia_ Sep 10 '26

Is that what really happened with PT?

1

u/Falcon3333 Sep 10 '26

No OP is taking out of his ass.

He's a Sony bot trying to defend them by making one of the most esteemed game developers in history is actually not and is secretly terrible.

Konami have proven many times over they're an awful, cash-grabbing company who would rather make gambling machines than actual games.

1

u/Spectrum1523 Sep 10 '26

Sony wants to make money, they thibk Kojima will lose them money

1

u/BakeJaldino Sep 10 '26

They’re about to realise big losses on Wolverine, probs cutting losses tbh.

1

u/Internal_Swing_2743 Sep 10 '26

The game is still gonna sell. The review scores are great, but the game isn’t out yet. I doubt Wolverine will be a commercial failure.

-7

u/Johncurtisreeve Sep 10 '26

I bet it had to do with physical discs

5

u/New_Cockroach_505 Sep 10 '26

Then he wouldn’t have left for Xbox

5

u/Trashypass Sep 10 '26

I may. Kojima has said he wants physical. And he well know to speak his mind

2

u/PancakePanic Sep 10 '26

Xbox started going all digital long before Sony, they're just not dumb enough to openly say it.

0

u/Johncurtisreeve Sep 10 '26

Theyre still releasing physical first party games

2

u/PancakePanic Sep 10 '26

How many first party games and exclusives have released as digital only for xbox already? Or postponed physical once digital sales numbers came in?

Sony is also still releasing physical first party games until 2028, and how many have been digital only in the past?

0

u/Johncurtisreeve Sep 10 '26

Halo, fable, gears eday all have physical releases

2

u/PancakePanic Sep 10 '26

So do Wolverine, Laufey and Fable on ps5?

Know what didn't have physical releases? Or only got one way later not published by MS? Hellblade 2, Outer Worlds 2, HiFi Rush, probably more.

Xbox is also heavily pushing digital even more with the "Disc to digital" thing they launched recently.

0

u/Johncurtisreeve Sep 10 '26

Why am i getting downvoted for this comment?

1

u/Spectrum1523 Sep 10 '26

It doesn't make sense

Why would Sony cancel the project because they want all digital?

9

u/ChasingVelka Sep 10 '26

Does just feel like the same cycle first it was Nintendo refusing to move to CDs because they'd been undisputed for so long then Playstation was riding high until they stopped backwards compatibility then Xbox was on high for a little until the Wii came along then Nintendo kind of peaced out after the Wii U undersold and both Xbox and Sony were hot potating good and bad decisions ever since. What once was King of the Hill for a console generation now shifts entirely based on weekly announcements from either companies. And I am pretty sure most people are tired of the concept of Console Wars in general. So it's more like: Alright who dug their grave even deeper this week compared to last? No hill to be king of anymore, only an ever deepening trench.

3

u/WutsAWriter Sep 10 '26

Is this gonna be an every third console thing for them?

11

u/Mike4302 Sep 10 '26

Acting like Microsoft isnt worse. How many studios have closed or nearly been closed bc of xbox again?

15

u/lostmyacc2 Sep 10 '26

Nobody said Microsoft is good. The original comment just mentions how comfortable PlayStation was that their competitor swoop in to capitalise on their mistake. Thats it

2

u/MrBlueA Sep 10 '26

Most of the studios under Microsoft sealed their own fate by making trash games themselves, no one forced them.

2

u/Icy-Guarantee6994 Sep 10 '26

All we had to do was publish the damn games, CJ!

1

u/40_Thousand_Hammers Sep 10 '26

So... 2006 Sony with the PS3 ?

1

u/Boogie-Down Sep 10 '26

Compared to Xbox they absolutely are.

1

u/TobytheBaloon Sep 10 '26

Just like during the PS3 era

1

u/SprayArtist Sep 11 '26

They did the same fucking thing during the PS3 era.

1

u/Traditional_Bike8880 Sep 12 '26

This is how it always goes. After Xbox had the amazing 360 era, boom straight to the One and a total downward spiral. After Nintendo broke records and had everyone from kids to 90 years olds playing the Wii, boom the embarassing flop of the Wii U era. And now Sony

0

u/VantaDen Sep 10 '26

Sony shoot himself in the foot with stopping physical copy production.

-22

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26

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16

u/Necessary-Price-4757 Sep 10 '26

It's on Xbox tho 

-12

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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17

u/Necessary-Price-4757 Sep 10 '26

No. I don't have one. But it will still sell a lot on Xbox so your point is kind of, odd. That's why you're receiving down votes. 

-18

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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18

u/Necessary-Price-4757 Sep 10 '26

That doesn't make your point any more valid lol. It'll sell many millions of copies on Xbox. But alright bro 

2

u/Whole_Series2416 Sep 10 '26

His point is that the Xbox install base is a fraction of the size of Playstation. I guess he was just going about it in a rude way. I don't know how valid it is though since that doesnt have anything to do with exclusivity.

0

u/kamil3d Sep 10 '26

I will get it on Xbox, yes.

15

u/No-Doughnut-7952 Sep 10 '26

Its not exclusive tho. Its also on xbox

-11

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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9

u/RailroadAllStar Sep 10 '26

Not sure you know what the word “exclusive” means

1

u/Sandshrew922 Sep 10 '26

It isn't functionally exclusive lmao. Words have meanings.

10

u/Puzzled_Hat1274 Sep 10 '26

What? what game

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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14

u/puck_pancake Sep 10 '26

On Xbox too btw

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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15

u/Ok_Science_8502 Sep 10 '26

Lol it's not a "functional exclusive" just because PS5 is more popular than Xbox and more copies of GTA will be sold for PS5

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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10

u/Ok_Science_8502 Sep 10 '26

Dude I don't even have an Xbox, I have a PS5, and I am also clearly not claiming that GTA won't sell more on PS5. I actually explicitly said that it will. But that's not what the term "exclusive" means at all. You're just making up a definition of the word "exclusive" to make your point more impactful.

0

u/Puzzled_Hat1274 Sep 10 '26

Yeah checks out. I’m buying a ps5 for GTA 6 only despite the xbox being cheaper.

6

u/SnazzyCazzy1 Sep 10 '26

Bro that game aint Exclusive in anyway. Its a marketing deal. Thats it

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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13

u/SnazzyCazzy1 Sep 10 '26

Theres a massive difference of EXCLUSIVE and marketing deal. Im getting GTA…. ON MY XBOX

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '26

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4

u/3-bakedcabbage Sep 10 '26

It’s the same game on xbox or ps. What do you mean “sympathies”

0

u/BlackGuysYeah Sep 10 '26

They don't understand that they need to be sucking this mans cock. Half of their identity is tied to him. And, he's also a legit genius of game development.

Sony fucked this up.