r/whenthe • :3 • 16h ago

r/whenthe mfs complaining about everything Claude made it

15.3k Upvotes

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37

u/Comfortable-Bison932 13h ago

Call me crazy but using ai for code is different than using ai for art. I don't really consider coding an art. it's a skill for sure but ai allows you to do the hellish parts (like decompiling) so much faster and less tedious you would actually be a masochist to not use it.

29

u/CingRam004 12h ago

I think what people fail to realize is that virtually all programmers are using AI to help them code at this point.

2

u/Comfortable-Bison932 12h ago

it's true. I think people will probably always use ai in coding. Especially in corporate environments where companies just want a lot of work done fast.

4

u/Dat_yandere_femboi when imposter is sus: ding ding ding ding ding ding ding 11h ago

There’s a difference between using AI, AS A TOOL, to help them debug or find mistakes faster, vs having AI write the code with zero insight

They don’t and won’t understand the basics of what it makes because they lack the background of having learned how to code

9

u/CingRam004 11h ago

Sure, the problem is most people who blindly hate AI, don’t care how you use it.

It’s just blanket demonization.

And I don’t really blame them. AI companies and AI bros are insufferable.

It really overshadows how amazing the tech is.

2

u/ErorrTNTcz 5h ago

yeah, non-programmers didn't care if you used java, c or python before, but now if you mention you used AI they will eat you alive while the end result is usually still the same.

Also hating on the vibecoded rewrites of games is a bit unfair imo. it's free software that isn't important and would have never existed without AI. Even if a human did write it, it still would have been spaghetti code to make the thing run for a quick youtube video.

5

u/Several_Hour_347 10h ago

People are using AI to write code though…. That’s literally what’s happening

1

u/RedSlimeballYT 7h ago

i wonder what about edge cases where you have two concepts you want to put together but you use ai code as the glue? like "i want to see what happens if i put an image through this specific mathematical algorithm to turn it into audio" and you ask the ai to make an implementation, since clearly your ideas and brainstorm is original even if you lack the ability to code

1

u/ImitationGold 5h ago

Correct me if I’m wrong but they are using AI to code yes but now it’s vibe coding via the internet. It used to be rules and guidelines you put in place. Now the rules are “exist”

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u/ai_art_is_art 12h ago

I love it how artists call their thing special but claim programming isn't. (Don't do that, OP.)

I also love it how the majority of programmers embrace AI and they are using AI to do other things unabashedly.

I think programmers like to make and do everything, they just don't have time for it. Now that ambition is unbridled and they're making things to their heart's desire.

Artists neg on each other and their styles. It can be quite toxic. Perhaps that's why they don't lean into using AI, because it isn't "their style", so they can't fathom using something that doesn't look like their line art or coloring. Engineers and programmers are used to working on teams, and even if they have their own style, they know someone else will come in and possibly change their stuff, so they're less protective. (It doesn't mean programmers aren't protective.)

Artists are just going to have to get used to it. AI is overwhelming taking over all the feeds, and if they want to participate in social media zeitgeist and commentary, they should view the tools as letting them do bigger scoped things. Short film, movies, games, etc.

And it's not like you can't heavily steer the models to using your aesthetic or style. Look at Gossip Goblin. His team's work is incredible. I saw an early cut of his new film, and it's better than Love Death and Robots.

4

u/Emiicii 11h ago

did you use gpt to write this lmao

3

u/vanquish_the_night 11h ago

Too many grammatical errors.

1

u/ai_art_is_art 9h ago

Thank you.

FFS, the witch hunt is going to make everyone talk in single sentences. Paragraphs are scary now.

I'm the guy that built the AI Adobe suite, btw. I think AI is good for freeing users from big tech. We can literally stage a revolution of sorts and take the internet back.

Tech belongs to us again.

1

u/vanquish_the_night 8h ago

I mean, I’m still largely anti-ai. Environmental and economical impacts as well as the loss of creative artistry positions this year alone…

But I’m also annoyed at the reflexive response to call everything AI.

18

u/TrailheadToken 13h ago

Working in a european unicorn, I started my career in 2020 in another insanely huge scale up (basically both have a very strong impact in a few big countries). I have not coded as single line of code myself for at least 6 months. This is fucking sad tbh I used to love coding, spending my days even my evening doing it but then they forced AI on us, like basically mandatory. (In a very hard business and AI struggle a LOT) but yeah, I have to admit it is a very good tool when you know exactly what you want and you plan correctly the direction (also the fact im a SWE I can see the mistake, I can preshot them etc.)

All of that to say, it is much faster and very good at tedious tasks, and it's also good if you basically code with it as a companion. It does not work if you just vagly say what to do. I'm really mixed with all of this honestly... I know my job is dead, programming will be done using LLM now because there is no coming back, but I kinda linked spending time coding. Now it feels like I'm stealing or cheating ? I don't have the statisfaction of coding myself something crazy !

2

u/pblol 12h ago

I've found the newer versions of Claude to work pretty well even when vague. It'll stop to prompt you for clarification, while it used to just try to figure it out on its own.

2

u/TrailheadToken 12h ago

For small codebase why not, but when it's about very complex business things it's struggling a lot and saying bullshit. We are using all the lastest model in a all gas no break mindset and we have some agent to filter bugs reported by the support. It is pure garbage half the time, suggesting fix when the app is basically working as expected etc... :/

1

u/pblol 12h ago

Gotcha. I mostly use it for smaller personal projects in Python/SQL that are interwoven to an extent and I typically add stuff to them in modules or quick fixes etc.

2

u/TrailheadToken 11h ago

Sometimes it's even more terrible like friday morning I woke up and check slack, I was in a thread pinged along my manager with a very long slop grenade msg written "SEVERITY HIGH ALERT" because I merged something the day before that was working as expected but the agent was thinking we were touching data in a way we shouldn't so he decided to ping everyone, we had to spent 30 mins to answer with plenty of proofs so other peoples didn't freak out. I'm fairly sure it's gonna happen more often now..

2

u/Comfortable-Bison932 12h ago

With how ai has gotten it has me thinking about a character from a book i read as a kid. Basically she was an elven smith and at one point the main character asks her why she does everything manually when she could just use magic and have it done instantly. There is no way the author could have known how relevant that question would be like 20 years later. The answer of the character in the book was that if you start focusing solely on the goal and not on the process you lose the thing you loved in the first place.

And i think that encapsulates ai very well. As long as ai is used for the things that are objectively tedious it's fine. But the moment you start using it on the things you love you just kill the thing you actually enjoyed. For art losing the process of making art is losing what makes it art in the first place. And for coding you lose being able to think of creative ways to solve problems. Ai was made so that we no longer have to do the tedious things and can focus on what we love. But instead it's taking all that we love and leaving us with empty work

2

u/TrailheadToken 12h ago

Yes totally, I think it's also the effect that you don't know very well your own scope anymore, you just follow AI guidelines and move forward on it. It's making you lazy and honestly impacting the critical thinking a lot... :/

2

u/MongooseLuce 12h ago

I don't know what a mod is if not art.

3

u/Zac-live 11h ago

so many mods are just tools and qol improvements

0

u/MongooseLuce 11h ago

That's still art. Video games are art.

4

u/Zac-live 11h ago

the nail you hammer into a wall to hang the painting on isnt art either.

you can of course claim that to you it is and we will just have to agree to disagree

4

u/mookie_pookie 11h ago

Video games are art, of course.

Slapping big ole naturals on an NPC?

I really don't mind if AI is used for that lol. Tbh, I've always been amazed at the amount of free labor put into modding. I have zero issues if they use the new tools available to help that process.

I'm an artist that works in traditional mediums, I have my own strong anti-AI opinions in the creative world, but it's a wide-ranging tool at the end of the day.

1

u/Bocaj1126 10h ago

Yes video games are art. The code is not art. Just like a painting is art while a bucket of paint is not. I don't care if a machine makes my paint

1

u/EspurrTheMagnificent 11h ago

For most people and companies, art is just a product, part of the "hellish part" that just costs money. No amount of "well, it's different because..." will change the fact art will be the next target. Normalize AI usage for one thing, and it will come for everything

1

u/AngloTitan 11h ago

I can agree with this, I’ve been an employed programmer for 9 years, AI saves me from so much pain and time. To use ai properly for coding, you still need to tell it exactly how you want it to work and what it needs to achieve not “fix all bugs, make no mistake” etc…

I no longer have to spend night of overtime and I’ve gained back my life because of that.

1

u/rupert_mcbutters 10h ago

That’s how I feel, though I’m sure there are coders who consider it an art.

1

u/Bocaj1126 10h ago

Completely agree. Coding can definitely be artistic and is certainly creative in nature but ultimately the end result is not a piece of art given it has a purely functional purpose.

1

u/deus_x_machin4 9h ago

The place you are drawing the line between art/non-art is common, but ultimately arbitrary. Code definitely be art. It can be an inspiring, skillful expression the way many arts are, and it can be the code in a game that allows it to feel meaningful in a way that causes the game to be considered art. Once you draw the line here, it becomes unignorable that the whole stance is arbitrary and subjective. Hold it if you want, but you can't expect someone else to follow you any more than you can convince someone to believe something is art.

1

u/Legal_Ad2945 9h ago

yeah, you're crazy.

programming is absolutely a form of art.

1

u/EchoTheEcho 9h ago

As if AI can't be used to reduce the tedious parts of creating art? Plenty of non-AI tools already being used for that anyways (textures, templates, auto-fills, physical tools, etc.).

1

u/Secret_Chaos 9h ago

The thing is… there was no hellish part for some of us in programming…

1

u/Few-Horror2891 3h ago

If code is not art (mathematics masterpiece in some case) then garbage furry arts from DeviantArt too. So... furry-lovers can use AI for gen pictures to their satisfaction.

-1

u/Nightmare-Catalyst 12h ago

People who can't read code and use AI make the most tangled spaghetti messes of code slop possible. If you can read code and use AI your use of it would be very different.

Ai constantly tangled and repeats logic that already exists, putting logic where data should be and putting data where logic exists. So it is a constant struggle for it to actually make clean effective code. That's the difference between vibe coded slop, and effective design.

4

u/ItsTheSlime 12h ago

Okay but how different would that be from someone who is a complete beginner at programing creating his own mod?

1

u/Nightmare-Catalyst 11h ago

Quite different actually. Because AI has a tendency to repeat patterns often and rebuild structures from scratch the code bloat is much higher.

2

u/ItsTheSlime 11h ago

I think it depends a lot on the model you use, and how you go about building it.

If you just ask "build this", over and over, then yeah no shit.

If you ask it for specific things, like making a function, a loop, etc. You are quite unlikely to find many of any mistakes

2

u/Legal_Ad2945 9h ago

you just made this up. at least do some research before spouting nonesense

1

u/EspurrTheMagnificent 11h ago

That would be true if competent people had the time to check what the AI makes. In actuality, everyone just takes a quick glance at it, go "eh, good enough", and move on because the productivity demands are so absurd it's the only viable way to go about it

Ofc, if people had the time to properly look at the code AI makes, no one would use AI because it would just be less tedious, easier, and cleaner to make the code yourself, but the machine must not stop so slowing down will never happen

1

u/Comfortable-Bison932 12h ago

There will come a day where it won't make those mistakes anymore. That's the problem. That's why the argument against ai should never be just the fact that it's bad at what it does. Because while that may be the truth now it might not be in the future. I believe it's important to understand the actual difference between letting ai make things and letting humans do it. And the reason i hate ai is that somehow instead of outsourcing all the tedious boring work to ai we outsource all the creative fun work to ai and are left to do the tedious work.

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u/ashrasmun 13h ago

Call me crazy but using AI is not bad at all. If the result looks bad, it will be bad no matter the source.

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u/Comfortable-Bison932 13h ago

I disagree. All art is the expression of the artist's personal experiences and emotions. Ai doesn't have that. All it can do is try and predict what that would look like. it lacks everything that makes art art. Ai can make images but it can't make art

1

u/ashrasmun 4h ago

Fine, don't call it art. Call it ai media or something, but it's still something that bring entertainment, even if it's devoid of direct human input apart from the prompt.

-1

u/Sufficient_Roof_6699 13h ago

Sounds like some hippie bullshit to me, lol

0

u/Comfortable-Bison932 12h ago

The process of making art matters just as much if not more than the final piece. Without it you're left with an empty shell

-1

u/Sufficient_Roof_6699 12h ago

Nah. I’ve known some people that make art (read: porn) for a living. It’s just about the money for all of them. Especially furry artists, lol. AI does that (porn) pretty damn well.

-1

u/Euphoric-Taro-6231 12h ago

Its the same. Which is fine. Stop whining.

2

u/Comfortable-Bison932 12h ago

not quite and if you actually read my other comments you would understand why

-2

u/Euphoric-Taro-6231 12h ago

Art is not sunshine and rainbows either.