r/AmItheAsshole • u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] • 22h ago
Not the A-hole AITA For Telling a Friend She Needs To Reconsider Her Career Choice?
Hello, I need to know if I’m the AH here. I’ll accept any judgement good or bad.
So I (40F) am a respiratory therapist and have been for nearly ten years. We don’t get much respect but oh well. I entered community college at what I consider a late age. I went to college straight out of high school but failed out after three years.
When I did my first stint in college out of high school a friend of mine went to a local school of nursing. It wasn’t a college college but it was a school that taught nothing but nursing run by a local hospital. I lost contact with her shortly after that. Contact with her has been patchy because life is crazy and she doesn’t use social media.
Twelve years ago I was doing my pre-recs for respiratory therapy at my community college. I ran into her at my college. She was starting clinicals for the nursing program. I didn’t think much of it. College didn’t work out for me the first time either so I just brushed it off. When she started at another campus I lost contact with her again.
Recently I ran into her at a high school classmate’s funeral. When we all started catching up she told me she was still working on her nursing degree but the current program she was in wasn’t working out. That was when she filled me in on what post high school education has been like for her.
Just to explain, here’s what she’s done trying to become a nurse:
Nursing trade school right out of high school; didn’t work out.
Local state college for nursing; didn’t work out
Local university for nursing; didn’t work out
Local tech school for nursing; didn’t work out
Local community college for nursing (where I ran into her); didn’t work out
Tech school further away for nursing; didn’t work out
Community college further away for nursing; currently not working out.
We’re now 22 years out of high school and she’s been trying to become a nurse for 22 years and has been through SEVEN schools. I ended up saying, “maybe it’s nursing in general that isn’t working out. Have you considered respiratory therapy or rad tech? You already have your pre-recs.” She said I was a jerk for asking her to give up on her dreams. Maybe I was. But I’ll leave that for you to decide. I’d love to see her achieve her dreams, but it really feels like she’s suffering needlessly.
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u/peacefully84 22h ago
NTA I'd be shocked if no one else had ever pointed that out to her. And telling her she has her pre-reqs to have a career might help her wake up to actually getting a job instead of (I'm assuming) wasting time/money on nursing programs.
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u/Additional-Print2022 21h ago edited 20h ago
Some people like their problems and get offended when you suggest a solution. Atp this nursing struggle is her identity and op threatened it
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u/Meta2048 Asshole Enthusiast [6] 18h ago
I mean, she's been paying for the nursing schools, so I'd assume she already had a job of some kind. Lots of nursing students have a full-time job while they're working on the degree.
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u/theDarthonly 21h ago
I’d be afraid to have her as my nurse
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u/LonelyOwl68 Pooperintendant [51] 20h ago
I agree with you; "didn't work out" sounds like a euphemism for either dropping out of the program or flunking out. Those are the only two reasons that a student doesn't complete a program.
If it's her just dropping out, that means she can't/won't stick to it long enough to get through it. If she has flunked out of even one or two of the schools you mentioned, then I'd have to say that's a bit scary. Most private schools for any program don't want to flunk their students out, because they are dependent on the tuition students pay them. (That's not a bad thing, IMO, everyone has to make a living.) That said, most schools will try to keep their students from failing if possible.
I hope she does think about her career choice again. Maybe she will, even though she wasn't appreciative of OP's opinion at that time she might be considering it more by now, or will later.
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u/notcompatible 13h ago
With nursing programs there is also the possibility she was kicked out for inappropriate or unethical behavior.
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u/StarReasonable9666 10h ago
I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but the statement that dropping out means "she can't/won't stick to it" is very narrow sighted. Like, in this case, after 7 schools, it's likely.
But there are so many reasons why people are forced to drop out of school, sometimes multiple times. Unexpected pregnancy/illness, death in the family, loss of income (especially considering at least one of her tries likely happened during Covid), mental illness...there's really no way to know unless it's someone very close to you.
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u/charlottosaurusrex 22h ago
Before I answer, did she ask for your perspective on things?
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 22h ago
Yes
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u/charlottosaurusrex 22h ago
Then nah, you're not. If it had been unsolicited then maybe, but given she asked for your perspective you did nothing wrong. Tbh I would have thought 2 schools would've been a sign to maybe try something else. I dread to think how much money she's spent.
She asked for your honest outlook it's not your fault she didn't like the answer. We all have dreams, sometimes we need to compromise on them to get somewhere.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 22h ago
She also lamented she’s exhausted her options for local affordable schools. Another nursing program would either be a way away or be at a local private college whose tuition is higher than a kings salary.
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u/charlottosaurusrex 22h ago
Gosh... I mean, I feel for her, but at some point you have to accept that some things are beyond your ability.
In the UK we have nursing assistants who do things like washing patients, making sure they're fed, changing sheets, etc. They're essential in the NHS here and it's easy to get into, maybe something like that would be more her speed? If that's something they have where you are. She'd get to care for people but wouldn't have to keep going to school.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 21h ago
In America nursing assistants are treated terribly. (No respect, starvation wages, ridicule.) But I agree they ARE essential. Some of my good friends are nursing assistants. RT and rad tech at least has a middle class wage.
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u/charlottosaurusrex 21h ago
Yeah, the pay for it here isn't great either. Your option sounds like the better of the two then by far! But regardless, i wouldn't lose sleep over it. You were just trying to help.
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u/unsafeideas Asshole Aficionado [13] 21h ago
Her problem is not "nursing". Whatever makes her fail nursing schools will make her fail your school to. My best guess. You dont fail same school 5 times without there being a reason in you.
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u/Useful-Soup8161 22h ago
NTA, I had a friend who wanted to be a nurse but after failing remedial math 3 times she gave up on that. She works in child care now and she’s really good at that. Sometimes you need to realize if something isn’t working out then you should probably move on. Did she happen to explain why all these chances didn’t work out?
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 21h ago
Honestly, she seemed really upset about it not working out so I didn’t ask why
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u/UnfortunateAuditor34 22h ago
I'd honestly say NAH, you gave her your opinion based on what you've observed. She has her dreams and she's willing to work to get to it regardless of the amount of time and money it takes. If she's able to support herself I see no issue.
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u/BreastAficionado Partassipant [2] 22h ago
I mean other than having a happier life not struggling for 22 years on a 4 year course would be one thing, but yeah her life her choice. I don't think anyone was calling her out on it though. OP merely asked if they were an AH for mentioning it.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 22h ago
She pointed out that she’s exhausted her options for local (sort of) affordable nursing programs. The only options now are either move, do a long commute to school, or go to the private college whose tuition is a kings salary.
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u/TetraThiaFulvalene Partassipant [1] 21h ago
What does "didn't work out mean" why is she no longer in those schools instead of just being delayed graduation?
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 21h ago
Beats me
She was upset so I didn’t want to ask
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u/kalixanthippe 19h ago
She was upset, so you decided to add to it? This is a read the room situation.
If you want her to take your advice seriously, and not be pissed, you do not give it while the person is not in a mindset to consider it.
If you care, you make a time to have coffee and see if they are receptive.
Try leading a clydesdale to water when they are keyed up, same timing here.
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u/prefix_code_16309 Partassipant [2] 19h ago
The giant overarching question of the thread. Seven different institutions over two decades? This goes beyond chasing the dream...
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u/StarReasonable9666 9h ago
I obviously don't know OP/their friend, but I do have a sister who's a nurse and have done a medical degree myself (for a lab position). Many schools have strict timeliness in these programs. Everyone starts at the same time, takes the same classes together, and does their practicals/field experiences at the same time. If you fail one course, you are sometimes allowed to be "held back" a semester and move into a different group to try again, but not always. Some schools, if you can't pass the first time through, you have to start over at the very beginning.
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u/myplantscancount 21h ago
A respiratory therapist saved my daughter from being kept in the NICU for an indeterminate amount of time, so I greatly appreciate you!
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u/Technical_Green3902 22h ago
NTA! she should try another career in the medical field after 22 years, you probably told her what she was thinking and she didn’t want to hear it
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u/BURNU1101 Asshole Enthusiast [5] 17h ago
NTA and I would not want her as my nurse or to take my love ones hell I would not want her to take care of someone I dont like. Based on your description she sounds like she would be dangerous.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 17h ago
I don’t actually know what’s going wrong
It seems like she does well in the didactic classes, but when she gets to clinicals things run aground
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u/Old-Bowler4150 16h ago edited 16h ago
That is very odd bc during clinical we aren’t expected to be fully blown independent nurses, just some vitals and assessments and practicing skills. I wonder if it’s a punctuality/attendance issue; most schools don’t tolerate that and workplaces don’t either. Either that or she’s doing dangerous things trying to be too independent bc she thinks she should be a nurse by now. Quite a sad story, seems so expensive to try one thing this many times.
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u/Artshildr 15h ago
OP said she has a very big heart and she cares for others. Maybe she cares a little too much? I know I couldn't be in any medical field because I care too much, so I'd be miserable. Maybe she's experiencing some type of mental block whenever she gets too close?
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u/phoenix762 6h ago
Yeah, I was thinking the same. In fact, when I was in school clinicals we were allowed to do a lot more than the nurses were, and that confused me. (I’m sure not all schools were like that). One nursing student was saying that we were lucky (we probably were).
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u/BURNU1101 Asshole Enthusiast [5] 17h ago
Well i stand by what I said. Book learning means nothing if you cannot effectively deliver patient care. Again that is scary for her future patients if she ever did actually succeed. She should have been able to figure out the issue by now and the fact that she has not raises some serious questions.
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u/phoenix762 6h ago
I’d think that the book work would be what she is struggling with….not clinicals. Makes you wonder….
I’m a retired respiratory therapist…yeah, clinicals can be kind of scary at first, because you are scared to do stuff (well, I was- especially ABG’s) but that’s how you learn, hands on. You learn important things, safety, etc. And, of course, you learn how to communicate with patients, and work with other departments, etc.
Is she having trouble working with others? Is it something else?
I really struggled with math concepts, especially when it came to formulas (I have a learning disability)…so I can understand how hard it could be.
But-if I flunked out of the program twice, I’d think that the program wasn’t for me, and look at something else related to health care.
I worked as a CNA when I was going to respiratory school, it’s hard work and CNA’s just aren’t appreciated, and that blows my mind-they are extremely valuable to healthcare.
I was going to school for healthcare coding originally, but I was bored silly. I wound up going to respiratory school.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 6h ago
I don’t know
To hear her tell the story she got all A’s in her pre-recs. But as soon as she got to clinicals, she patted out.
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u/phoenix762 6h ago
I bet there’s more to that story…
Hopefully she’ll realize that it’s time to look into another career. What type of work does she do now?
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u/MeatSlammur 15h ago
NTA - I’m a nurse. Please never let that lady become a nurse. If you fail one program you go and learn how to be a better student, come back and destroy the second program. Failing the 2nd program is huge. A 3rd failed program means she has some SERIOUS issues. Shame on the 4th program and beyond for even taking her at that point. They’re just squeezing her for money
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u/DescriptionFew6118 18h ago
Nta. If she actually made it her career, I think I’d feel sorry for her patients.
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 17h ago
That’s what I was thinking
And we didn’t really unpack what was going wrong it just seems like she gets to clinicals and things snag
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u/adoradear 11h ago
If she couldnt become a nurse after 22yrs, I don’t want her as my RT either. I need my RT to know their shit, and I’d argue that the knowledge base, science/physiology in particular, and ability to act under stress, are degrees higher as an RT than as an RN in many settings (I’m emerg so RTs and RNs are both high on those things in my area, but there’s definitely areas of nursing where people can “float” more with less knowledge/skills)
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u/Cobalt-Spectre-438 9h ago
seven schools and nobody ever asked her what part keeps going wrong which is the real question you should have led with
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u/Prestigious-Bend9996 16h ago
Your friend has an unhealthy amount of optimism and is obviously unable to learn from her mistakes. I’d love to see her version of her career trajectory.
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Hello, I need to know if I’m the AH here. I’ll accept any judgement good or bad.
So I (40F) am a respiratory therapist and have been for nearly ten years. We don’t get much respect but oh well. I entered community college at what I consider a late age. I went to college straight out of high school but failed out after three years.
When I did my first stint in college out of high school a friend of mine went to a local school of nursing. It wasn’t a college college but it was a school that taught nothing but nursing run by a local hospital. I lost contact with her shortly after that. Contact with her has been patchy because life is crazy and she doesn’t use social media.
Twelve years ago I was doing my pre-recs for respiratory therapy at my community college. I ran into her at my college. She was starting clinicals for the nursing program. I didn’t think much of it. College didn’t work out for me the first time either so I just brushed it off. When she started at another campus I lost contact with her again.
Recently I ran into her at a high school classmate’s funeral. When we all started catching up she told me she was still working on her nursing degree but the current program she was in wasn’t working out. That was when she filled me in on what post high school education has been like for her.
Just to explain, here’s what she’s done trying to become a nurse:
Nursing trade school right out of high school; didn’t work out.
Local state college for nursing; didn’t work out
Local university for nursing; didn’t work out
Local tech school for nursing; didn’t work out
Local community college for nursing (where I ran into her); didn’t work out
Tech school further away for nursing; didn’t work out
Community college further away for nursing; currently not working out.
We’re now 22 years out of high school and she’s been trying to become a nurse for 22 years and has been through SEVEN schools. I ended up saying, “maybe it’s nursing in general that isn’t working out. Have you considered respiratory therapy or rad tech? You already have your pre-recs.” She said I was a jerk for asking her to give up on her dreams. Maybe I was. But I’ll leave that for you to decide. I’d love to see her achieve her dreams, but it really feels like she’s suffering needlessly.
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u/master_baker_69 16h ago
NTA
I always wanted to be a veterinarian, but when I was going to apply to the vet tech program at my community college… one of the requirements was to pass an intro to chemistry class. I did well until the final exam, my professor thought I was cheating (I wasn’t, the calculator was older and had my name taped on it) and dismissed me. So I looked into veterinary assistant courses, which I aced with flying colors. I’m a certified veterinary assistant, and I couldn’t be happier with my current job.
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u/summerbreeze2027 Asshole Enthusiast [6] 14h ago
NTA, but I'm surprised that seven different programs were willing to take her. It's hard to get into nursing school, and you have to have good grades. Plenty of good students don't get in. I think you gave her sensible advice under the circumstances.
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u/Buckleupbuttercup77 Asshole Aficionado [10] 14h ago
NTA. I wouldn’t want this person anyone here near me or anyone I cared about for nursing duties.
It’s clear she cannot master the material.
She should have been advised to quit by any and all of those programs she’s tried.
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u/notcompatible 13h ago edited 13h ago
NTA, Though I also doubt that someone who couldn’t get through 7 different nursing schools would be able to work as a rad tech or respiratory therapist. All of those jobs require critical thinking skills and the ability to work well in a fast paced environment with sick people.
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u/Oyster3425 13h ago
Seven separate nursing programs "didn't work out." What is the common factor here? HER. She's not going to take your advice. NTA for suggesting a different career goal.
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u/wamme6 13h ago
NTA.
As someone who works in nursing education, I’m surprised that schools have even continued to admit her! That is a massive red flag. With that many failed attempts, it’s pretty clear that it’s not the schools, it’s her. Unless she does some deep soul searching and figures out why this continues to not work for her, she’s just going to end up in the same cycle again and again. Trying another health care program isn’t going to be the solution, she’ll probably just end up in the same cycle with that too.
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u/nblackhand Partassipant [2] 12h ago
NTA-- Honestly I think it's basically always legit to say that your own personal career choice worked out well for you and you'd recommend giving it a try? Like, that's sort of intrinsically not condescending, right. You are clearly trying to help and you also mention she did ask for your advice. What are you supposed to do, lie and say that you're sure she'll totally get it in year 23 of trying to complete a course designed to take at most 4?
It does kind of seem like your recommendation, while kind, may not be that correct either, though. From your comments she does fine in classes and then fails at clinicals, so really any patient-facing care is likely not right for her. I suppose she might now not be very willing to listen to your advice but if I were her friend I would suggest to her that she might be a good fit for medical billing, a field which 1) pays pretty well 2) requires academic-style detail oriented direction-following paperworky skills 3) desperately needs people who give even the tiniest shit about the people whose paperwork they're handling 4) is not actually patient-facing.
also btw sorry pedant compulsion you've said "pre-recs" a couple of times and it's actually "pre-reqs", it's short for "pre-requisite".
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u/ComfortablePhysical9 20h ago
NTA - just seems like the risk you take when you give unsolicited advise to someone. You aren't a close friend and it doesn't state she asked your opinion so not surprising she felt upset by your comment. Don't think it makes you an AH though - you didn't have bad intentions. Move on, leave her to her life and you crack on with yours.
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u/StormySally08 16h ago
NTA. You were being realistic and honest and showing her there are other options.
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u/Artshildr 15h ago
NTA. You cannot be the first person who has ever pointed this out to her. She seems to be lacking in self-awareness.
A lot of people seem to think that you can do anything if you try hard enough, but that's simply not true. Sometimes you try your best and you still fail. That's when it's time to pick up the pieces and to either try again, or to move on. And she desperately needs to move on.
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u/Careless_Hope5987 Partassipant [2] 17h ago
ESH slightly. Uh sounds like she is too dumb or not diligent enough to make it through the course work. If she has been trying for 22 years and it "didn't work out" the common denominator I see is her! But she may not be respiratory therapist material either. Has she been supporting herself all this time or sponging off a husband or family while she dilly dallies around? But if it is not a close friend I probably would not have commented on her career path unless asked.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 17h ago
I think she’s working a job that doesn’t pay well but she’s living with her parents
I get what you’re saying about RT as well
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u/DifferentLime9440 8h ago
Omg and it’s so easy to be a nurse
It’s just knowing how to cheat with married doctors and be crazy
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u/Anonymous_and_Lost40 22h ago
YTA. it isn't your place to tell her to reconsider. You are not close enough friends with her to broach that subject.
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u/Cattitude0812 Partassipant [1] 21h ago
The woman asked OP for her opinion.
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u/Anonymous_and_Lost40 21h ago
Where in the post does it say that? I just went back and re-read it.
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u/That_Molasses_507 21h ago
YTA. There’s more than one path to a career and she’s still finding her way. You admittedly stated that you’re estranged with this person. It’s not your business and you don’t get a vote.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 21h ago
After seven colleges?
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u/That_Molasses_507 21h ago
Still,,, not your business. Not your circus, not your monkeys. After 22 years, she definitely has a “stick to it”
Personality. Next time, I suggest you try words of encouragement. You probably ruined her evening, and to what end?8
u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 20h ago
Encourage her to do what?
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u/That_Molasses_507 20h ago
Encouraging someone and assigning a specific task are mutually exclusive. I would have asked, given her history, if there was an area of medicine she is most interested in pursuing. I’ve been in higher education and have seen the damage these opinions have on students. I once heard, in social settings, people should feel good after interacting with you. That was good advice and mirrors the, “if you have nothing good to say, say nothing”.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 20h ago
I’ve been told a real friend will tell you what you don’t want to hear
So encourage her to do what? You can’t encourage anything without a direction
Encourage her to keep blowing money on tuition for a career path that clearly isn’t working out
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u/That_Molasses_507 20h ago
Okay then. You go your way and I’ll go mine.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 20h ago
So you can’t answer the question
What should I be encouraging her to do?
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u/That_Molasses_507 20h ago
Follow her bliss.
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u/MissMoxie2004 Asshole Enthusiast [8] 20h ago
So encourage her to keep burning money on tuition, racking up student debt, waste her time, and continue expending herself on a career path that isn’t working out. Peak friendship
Also I don’t see much bliss anytime soon given she’s not currently making good money and the debt is racking up.
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u/dododoo223 Partassipant [1] 22h ago
NTA, after 22 years and seven schools, suggesting an alternative career isn't unreasonable. You weren't mocking her dreams, just offering a practical perspective. She doesn't have to take your advice, but that doesn't make you a jerk for giving it.