r/DeadlockTheGame • u/Regular-Bid6812 Calico • 10d ago
Discussion Baba has the lowest winrate on the highest and lowest MMR ranks.
Via the top two stat tracking sites.
This I was not expecting. She seemed strong at first I wonder why it's so bad.
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u/pudgieboi 10d ago
she is a hard character and has only been out for a day, give her time
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u/ZhicoLoL Kelvin 10d ago
She is harder to play than rat king. Ult is easy to cancel
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u/IhamAmerican 10d ago
My instincts constantly fuck up her ult. I have 1/3 chance of turning it off right after I activate it lol
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u/DemonicArthas Lash 10d ago
I do this constantly with Venator, especially during chaotic fights (if you're stunned or dashing, etc). Just spamming 4 to use ult and then instantly cancelling it...
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u/yepterrr 10d ago
Ive done this so many times on dynamo. I get stunned, but I wanna ult so I start mashing, then I cancel it. Ive actually changed my cancel ability button to something else so that doesnt happen anymore
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u/DemonicArthas Lash 10d ago
I tried to do that on Venator, but couldn't. Even if you set a separate/alternate "Cancel" button, 4 still cancels ult for some reason.
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u/Orgerix 10d ago
there is a setting specifically about recasting also cancel channels.
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u/DemonicArthas Lash 10d ago edited 10d ago
I cannot, for the life of me, find it... Can someone share a screenshot or what do I need to type in the search?I now know what you're talking about. It's off by default and doesn't work for Venator.
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u/387dedaehelzzuPevreN McGinnis 10d ago
It's the "Cancel with ability key" -toggle right below your ability keybind settings. Not that it matters because it's bugged and some abilities get cancelled even with it turned off.
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u/DemonicArthas Lash 10d ago
Yeah, it's off by default, and it just makes it so you CAN cancel by clicking the ability again (which other people have with Dynamo/Krill). With Venator, it's kind of the opposite and that option doesn't apply to him
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u/ThePizzaDevourer Seven 10d ago
I do this with Mo & Krill ALL THE TIME trying to catch someone just out of reach...
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u/Reasonable_Ebb_5683 Mo & Krill 9d ago
I made ult cancel shift + space last year and never looked back because yeah, constantly dropping it by accident whenever the mental stack was high
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u/DemonicArthas Lash 10d ago
I can't even cancel MoKrill ult without turning this on in the setting. Why not just turn it off?
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u/RandomGuyPii 10d ago
i was watching joechuck play her on release and i think he cancelled like, all but 1 ult trying to send our her 1
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u/bigtree2x5 10d ago
Yeah it's so crazy how rat kings ult is genuinely unstoppable but if you cough in a different lane from baba it ends hers
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u/Hojie_Kadenth 10d ago
Am I right in saying you can't shoot while ulting?
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u/theCuriousOne1923 10d ago
You can let do anything except stare at the enemy and absorb all damage lmao
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u/Juking_is_rude 10d ago
you can hit 2 and melee, not enough to make it good though.
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u/vezitium 9d ago
Definitely a lot of misplaying. Seen so many use her like front liner like billy or abrams when she's more like a tanky support that gets their hands dirty.
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u/Regular-Bid6812 Calico 10d ago
I agree with you but im just making a post with the truth on it! I think it's relevant information. Hopefully people figure her out and number go up!
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u/Shantorian14 10d ago
probably because she isnt a conventional damage dealer and thats how 90% of the playerbase seems to default to playing her
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u/frallet 10d ago
Mhm. First time playing her against people playing their mains for the 100th time may have something to do with it too
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u/CayMaster2 9d ago
almost every baba in my games has been building full spirit, and getting blown up before getting any value out of her 2 and ult. The moment i tried her kit out in training room it seemed really obvious that you're meant to build her mainly green, with the only spirit items being utility like cooldown/expansion/rapid recharge for the most part. Her 1 gives such an insane amount of spirit once you stack it up that any more spirit power seems like complete overkill. While her ult wants you to stay in close range, looking at the enemy heroes, for multiple seconds, without getting stunned, and then wait for the birds to come down as well. From pressing the button to her ult actually doing something is often at least 5 seconds, so you need a ton of survivability to get good use out of it.
Her 1 pulls enemies in closer while lowering the damage of spirit characters, and her 2 provides her with speed and resists to help the battle mage playstyle. her 3 is the only ability that isn't entirely congruent with being a close ranged brawler, but even then it helps being tanky when you're trying to perfectly time a silence potion in the middle of the enemy team.
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u/Stop_Sign Rem 9d ago edited 9d ago
Metro has been having great games via rushing radiant regen, and getting both kinetic dash and the spirit dash jump one, then mostly going full spirit. The regen from radiant once youve stolen 150 spirit makes her a crazy healer every fight. He stays in the middle of the fight bouncing up and down with heavy slam, uses brew for shield during a fight and dps for before it, and almost always gets no value out his ult at all. His after game reports show more torment pulse damage than spirit strike
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u/Available-Lab4363 10d ago
her numbers are great, but her kit seems extremely complicates to use effectively. im sure as people play her more she'll get better but i feel like she's going to be like sinclair or shiv where anybody who isnt masterful at her is just meh at her and has meh impact
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u/Pristine_Flatworm 10d ago
The Ult numbers are fake, completely locks you out of shooting for at best a late game bebop bomb and a shitty rabbit hex
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u/Middle-Plant-6724 9d ago
it's best used when you're not being focused, a lot of people dont realize your casting it and it's ranged
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u/reroll-life Rem 9d ago edited 9d ago
her numbers are great
her numbers are not great. You guys couldn't math out of an area of a circle. Come on, prove me wrong, do the math I dare you. Aside from spirit steal the numbers are weak af in actual gameplay because all her big numbers are blocking so while on paper it's "big" it's not actually impactful as concurrent numbers. You can do 1k spirit damage with her ult but it blocks her for 10 seconds so in practice with other characters you can do 500 damage and +1,000 more from unblocked activity. People forget that this is a shooting game not chess.
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u/Nerazim 9d ago
You can't just "aside from spirit steal" the move that gives you 200 spirit. Her silence and spirit steal are probably just gonna guarantee her as a counter pick for against spirit heavy teams.
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u/Succubia Mina 9d ago
Ah yes, 3s of silence in aoe on a 10s cooldown is bad.. as well as stealing hundreds of spirit power making it spirit resist in return.
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u/reroll-life Rem 9d ago
3s of silence with 5 second quick time event-like charge up. stats on paper != stats in practice
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u/Kierenshep 9d ago
3s silence on a jar slower and less range than wardens flask (so she has to be close to use it) that ALSO self silences her for the same amount of time and means she contributes zero damage during that same time.
I swear people parroting this like her silence is the second coming of release shiv have not played her and don't know how unwieldy it is to use.
She's going to be locked in pro jail as one of the most team-reliant heroes and team comp reliant heroes since Sinclair.
A team fully supporting her with a Rem to heal and another frontline to make space into a 6 spirit team? Oh she will do very well.
Solo queue where people do whatever they want? Way less useful.
She has negative wave clear unless she's facing an enemy. She relies on forcing structured fights with her team. Her split push is super easy to punish and she has no real escapes. And she has a horrible laning phase if she isn't matched up against an early spirit nuker (eg Apollo).
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u/Water_Meat 9d ago
Her item build is horrifically unintuitive, which is actually really cool when it comes to character diversity. Nobody wants to build like Baba wants to build.
She has the weakest gun in the game since it's meant to be boosted by her 1 and do hybrid damage, so gun builds are out.
Her melees are kind of weak later in the game, even considering Granny Longlegs boosts, just due to her scaling, so melee builds are decent early, but fall off a cliff later.
Her spirit scaling is purposely AWFUL and that is unlikely to change, because if they were good, stealing spirit from the opponent would make her unstoppable, so spirit builds are out.
HOWEVER - ITEMS that scale with spirit can scale off of the stolen spirit. Spirit Strike, Radiant Regeneration, Torment Pulse, Scourge... Boundless Spirit's % bonus increases the stolen spirit (not how much they lose but how much you gain). You hit 2-3 people with your 1 and your spirit scaling items practically double in strength.
It's hard to math out in any realistic sense, since your spirit steal on 1 scales with Baba's level, but if you RUSHED Radiant regeneration and got it as soon as you were possibly able (before any other items) and hit both enemies in lane with your 1, your radiant regeneration goes from healing 35hp over 7 seconds to 49.7hp over the same period.
If we're going for a more realistic one, if you got mystic shot before any mystic items (which you might do in lane), the damage goes from 50 damage to over 100.
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u/DellSalami 9d ago
I think her win rate might rise as people figure out her builds more. I went torment pulse and radiant regeneration on her and damn near felt unkillable.
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u/V_Dracula 9d ago
Yeah, I played against a Baba who had early Radiant Regen and oh my god she was unkillable, and the player wasn't even good.
I'm not an expert but it seems like greens really pop on her
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u/otcipitalorange 9d ago
she still melts to burst/gun/evasive heroes. Vyper mina are both really good, then basically anyone who can shoot her with some shred.
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u/Knaprig 9d ago
Idk, with how much free spirit resist she gets (both explicitly via the scaling, and implicitly by removing the spirit of the enemies), you can focus all your green purchases on bullet resist and be very durable.
Then with radiant regen, torment pulse and some form of spirit leech you can just walk people down
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u/CertainDerision_33 Mina 9d ago
Mina feels horrible into her imo, she has mega spirit resist and built in spirit sap
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u/TenguNun Holliday 10d ago
I was spectating high rank lobbies in game and it was rough, she just gets run over
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u/Warren_Piece_Brasch 10d ago
She's got a super weak early game and its easy to keep her so down she never hits late game.
Her kit is also pretty counter able. Her jump stomp is parry bait.
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u/xF00Mx Vyper 10d ago
Yeah, I notoced early she is very divable, and doesn't have anything meaningful to stop gun carries from running over her.
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u/D1v1s10n 10d ago
This was what I noticed when I played her. All of her abilities have delays and she has no immediate answer to someone just diving her under tower. The initial delay on the teapot feels so bad, even if you just want to throw the shield you have to wait so long.
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u/Water_Meat 9d ago
They should just remove the initial delay altogether, allow you to doubletap to shield immediately, keep the rest of the timings the same.
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u/SweetnessBaby 10d ago
The same thing happened with Mina when she came out. People just weren't good with her at the start. Couple weeks in and skilled players were absolutely terrorizing lobbies and solo carrying with her.
Give Baba some time.
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u/flshift 10d ago
mina is still a newcomer trap, she's a cute vampire girl and newcomers often try her out only to be terrible since she's difficult
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u/Trowaway151 10d ago
The game also tells you she’s beginner friendly
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u/BulletCola Paige 10d ago
it does??
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u/New-Poem-719 9d ago
Yes. She has a thumbs up on her.
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u/BulletCola Paige 9d ago
I thought those were removed entirely after the first major update??
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u/PM_ME_DND_FIGURINES 9d ago
The game's advice in general is TERRIBLE. The tutorial is useless. Most of the default builds are insanely barebones and terrible besides. They do things like recommend Mina to new players. It's honestly kinda impressive how hostile the game is to learning it.
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u/snakebit1995 10d ago
I've got 250 hours in the game and I still feel awkward on Mina.
She's great if you can hit your shots, if you have bad aim you're just a walking soul farm cause you explode in 2 hits cause of her naturally low HP
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u/barbaricKinkster 10d ago edited 10d ago
Mina has a better escape ability (though Baba doesn't lack one with long legs) and she can obliterate players from safety with her ult. Her ult also silences which makes it safer to fire off. Both ults are channeled, both are wasted if you get stunned during it, but Baba is significantly easier to stop.
I think Baba has a problem where she lacks the ability to get high value out of her ult without team setup, because she has to get in close to do it.
She has insane wombo combo potential paired with someone like Dynamo but if she doesnt get setup then I think she struggles
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u/Abandion Vindicta 10d ago
mina was objectively weak on release and had to be hotfix buffed several times.
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u/SweetnessBaby 10d ago
And a few months later they ended up reverting most of those initial reactionary buffs, because turns out she wasn't THAT weak, the playerbase just sucked at playing her.
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u/Abandion Vindicta 10d ago
her buffs never got reverted, she only got more incrementally buffed with time (especially in terms of her late game scaling; she used to scale like shit). release mina would be d tier if it still existed in the current state of the game, F tier if the ult damage on objective cheese didn't come back.
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u/DoorframeLizard Mina 10d ago
Mina got nerfed in almost every patch for a longass time, I was fighting for my life in these threads man
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u/TheseNamesDontMatter Pocket 9d ago
It blows my mind how some of you just confidently come onto Reddit and say factually wrong shit and get upvoted.
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u/Abandion Vindicta 9d ago
none of these buffs were ever reverted btw.
" Love Bites buildup now takes 1 less shot.
Love Bites on proc damage spirit scaling increased from 1.5 to 1.7.
Love Bites damage spirit scaling increased from 0.06 to 0.09
Love Bites bonus damage spirit scaling increased from 1.6 to 1.85
Love Bites T3 increased from -4s Cooldown to -5s.
Sanguine Retreat recast window increased from 3s to 3.5s
Sanguine Retreat T3 changed from "-12s Cooldown" to "+1 Recast"
Sanguine Retreat T3 now also increases range by +3m.
Sanguine Retreat recast time increased from 3.5s to 4s.
Sanguine Retreat T3 cast range increased from +3m to +4m.
Rake now passively lets you float in the air with the umbrella for up to 2.5s with right click
Rake T3 damage increased from 6% to 7%
Rake hero hit missing health as damage increased from 3% to 5%
Rake missing health as damage increased from 5% to 6%.
Float time with umbrella increased from 2.5s to 4s.
Can now zoom in again to continue floating if you let go of the zoom, as long as the total zoom time is still under the max."
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u/Abandion Vindicta 9d ago
keep coping about getting beaten by a D tier hero mate. release mina sure was unfair with her 40% winrate in eternus
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u/One_Dollar_Turtle 10d ago
At first I was thinking about hybrid build on Baba and noticed that it does not work when people play her in my games so when I finally got ability to play her decided to build something like spirit tank, worked kinda well, so guess this character is not really that obvious as for example Rat king and we need to get more “best practices” that can stabilise winrate
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u/Yeti_Poet Dynamo 10d ago
Yeah. Spirit tank, maybe with ricochet if I get rich is my plan.
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u/One_Dollar_Turtle 10d ago
My build was without orange items, however I was thinking about trying spellslinger, also spiritual overflow looks kinda natural
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u/colossalwaffles 10d ago
as someone who hasnt been able to play her yet, is mystic shot not a thing? seems pretty solid with 0.9x scaling, even early game if you steal 150 SP thats a solid 200 damage burst
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u/Professional_Egg9192 10d ago
There's definitely 2 parts of her that contribute to this Winrate
- she seems horrible into m1 carries, and depends on winning fights via gaining an overwhelming spirit power advantage
- the more obvious point of she seems not so easy to play by being a frontliner with a low max hp, so people running it down without proper play will get stomped
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u/WickTheTrickster 10d ago
Honestly, the easy answer to this is that she's kinda a demanding character. Threadsap is hard to hit without practice, you need some forethought to get the right brew you need for a fight, and Bench is a weird tool that I don't think anyone has figured out too much yet.
Contrast this with Rat King, who pretty much only had to slam ult down on team fights to win.
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u/werti5643 10d ago
its cus every baba ive played against just tries to do a melee build for some reason
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u/The_Nomad89 Venator 10d ago
Yep. I had one repeatedly try to do this to me as Venator and I smoked her so bad she started complaining in chat.
I was like you’re getting right in the face of someone you don’t wanna do that to.
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u/TechPriestOBrien 10d ago
Some content creator (I forgot who, only saw it in passing) posted that you should build her for melee because of Granny Long Legs, so I imagine it’s all just copycats of that.
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u/DODonion99 10d ago
I think melee is 100% a trap, it takes so fucking long and is so telegraphed. It seems best when the Baba spams the super jump and just does the melee randomly. IMO this is similar to fighting viscous where if he just spams punch on you every 2 seconds while staring at you then it is easy to parry but if he does it randomly during a big fight then it can be very easy to forget to parry.
I think in an ideal build you might randomly buy a spirit strike or something just to proc for 200-400 dmg when you have juiced spirit but going full melee ain't good
Also as a sidenote idk if her T3 legs talent is even working properly. It says melee life steal but it seems to be life stealing based off of her literal gun weapon dmg melee and not her spirit proc melee (from long legs) which means the lifesteal is always super low unless you have heavy gun items for some reason (you shouldn't since granny's base gun scaling sucks ass).
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u/snakebit1995 10d ago
melee build for some reason
Highlights, they wanna do the thing that makes them cool and skillful
Marvel Rivals has the same problem, terrible people insta locking spiderman, black panther, any dive hero etc so they can get their "Back line triple kill and escape taking no damage" twitch highlights
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u/CaptBland Victor 10d ago
A character to rival Sinclair and Mirage! /j
I do hope she stays somewhat niche, I like playing weaker sleeper characters.
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u/dore34 10d ago
Baba is sinclair type shit, put her in lane against any of those early lane spirit bullies like apollo or whatever and she is just unfair. Put her up against a guy with a gun and ehhh. Then after lane she becomes a spirit frontliner like celeste.
Shes really good in the situation shes good, but shes not always gonna be in that position.
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u/NotShane7 Baba 10d ago
My only normal game as her so far had me laning against infernus and rat king. I do not recommend playing her into them. I was on fire and getting shot the entire time, and stealing rat king's spirit does literally nothing lol.
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u/fingerlicking2 10d ago
I laned against an Apollo with her and you are right hahaha. I think I basically sabatoged his game progression as he only accumulated 25k souls by the end of the game.
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u/XLN_underwhelming 10d ago
Baba was in nightshift EU finals and did well. Seems situational. Stealing spirit from spirit characters is quite different from stealing spirit for gun characters.
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u/Nottan_Asian 10d ago
I think a big part of it is that almost none of her kit works reactively. Like if someone gets on you, your only escape tool is 2, so if you overcommit or aren’t paying attention to the map you’re just dead.
Also, give it a day to figure out the movement tech. The 2 slam can trimp.
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u/Trowaway151 9d ago
Her 2 is such an unreal escape tool it’s hilarious how people don’t realize how cracked it is yet.
Fucking 50% debuff/melee resist, +8m move speed and the highest verticality in the game.
She can jump to the pillars by buff. Means that if she positions right, she’s one jump away from being completely untouchable. All while brewing shields every 10 seconds. Like ok buddy.
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u/RandomOnlineBro 9d ago
In all my games today I've only died when getting jumped by the entire enemy team, it's actually insane how easy it it to escape even 4 or so people if you spec into survivability even a tiny bit.
Then one of the games the entire team went knockdown and that was hell, they were funny AF about it in chat though so I couldn't even be mad since they made it there whole mission to go hunt down the track star grandma.
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u/error_98 10d ago
I do still see a lot of people hitting her ult defensively as they're getting collapsed on
but you lose the spirit buff if you die so you need to still be alive when the bombardment finally connects or it does no damage.
in other words: pop ult as you're walking into the fight (after sap ofc) instead of trying to wait for 'the right moment'
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u/BaseballRelevant4149 10d ago
It's because people are trying to build her like a knockoff Celeste or Wraith. She isn't a carry, she's a support who should be buying items like Scourge because she gets more value out of the scaling than any other hero in the game.
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u/RoguesOfTitan 10d ago
Why does Scourge scale stronger on her? Is it cause of the spirit stealing? I thought Scourge only scaled with health.
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u/Stack_Man 10d ago
Scourge deals a % of the target's max health and that % increases with spirit (x0.005) https://deadlock.wiki/Scourge
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u/sundalius Infernus 9d ago
For those curious, this works out to about 1% more max HP damage per second when she’s sapped most of a team. A 40% increase in Scourge’s damage.
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u/Tricky-Passenger6703 10d ago
Anyone calling her a support is delusional. She's a battle mage. Close to mid range, ability damage, tanky, and excels in extended fights.
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u/Kyle700 10d ago
She's really a pretty bad support lol. She only has a single support ability (shield on 3)
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 10d ago
No what rhey are recommending Is getting items as her spirit can buff those items very well. Imagine stealing a lot of spieit but then casting scourge or healing circle or the large area healing item.
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u/sundalius Infernus 9d ago
Most supports only have one support ability, sometimes two.
Support is literally all about active items. Which all scale very well with Spirit. Which she has the most of.
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u/TreadPillow 9d ago
No, support is all about play style. Try playing her like rem, kelvin, dynamo, etc and you wont be using her at her full potential
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u/sundalius Infernus 9d ago edited 9d ago
Of course you don't play her like Rem or Dynamo. You play her like Ivy. I wouldn't even say you can't necessarily play her like Kelvin.
She's a debuffer who can knockback while she runs, important because her other key tools have cast times. She effectively has Spirit Inhibitor on her 1, which scales her active items, can choose between putting up more barriers than Paige or world's longest AOE Silence, and has a group hex that can turn into a damage thing if she can get the enemy team into her puzzle box. (sorry, totally blanked and forgot to finish this before hitting send lmao)
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u/TheLastDesperado 9d ago
Yeah Supports in Deadlock are very broad. Even the ones that are way more heal focused, like Kelvin, you could ignore that part of his build and go full damage. And even someone like Doorman you can build to be quite Support-y.
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u/DemoTou2 10d ago
In like 1 month everyone will be playing her with your average support items, mark my words. Spirit drain, barrier, silence, AoE CC. I remember this cope when supports released in dota, everyone playing them mid for a week or so until they realized it's horrible. Same thing will happen with Baba, she's not a carry.
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u/DODonion99 9d ago
I agree with this. I think it is just green and purple and active items that scale with spirit. Radiant regen seems core. Torment seems very good. Defensives like metal skin or warpstone etc to survive seem good. CDR and greater expansion are great. Some items like alch fire or scourge scale insanely hard.
Throw in a burst fire or something in specific games if you are feeling adventurous.
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u/TheBreadLoafer Drifter 10d ago
She's an off-carry, pseudo support with items at most. I think she'll excel once item balance comes around, as she needs to be fighting ppl to have any value at all
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u/Free_Talon 10d ago
Her build is pretty identical to celeste though. Like radiant torment healing booster locket stuff.
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u/BaseballRelevant4149 10d ago
That's the build that's tanking her winrate.
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u/Free_Talon 10d ago
But what build isn’t? She’s harder to pilot than Rat King, we need to give her time. But I think at least the Radiant Regen, Torment, and Snatch makes sense. The build doesn’t make the player.
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u/ProLooper87 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well Buff enjoyers just won night shift using it. It's a pilot issue not a build issue.
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u/Kierenshep 9d ago
A team playing entirely around her is different than solo queue.
She demands a LOT of attention and babying especially the early game
Or did you not see her swap into Apollo lane the entire game against a six spirit team
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u/mothergosky6767 10d ago
yeah cuz ppl suck with it lol. she easily gets 300+ spirit lategame which makes every spirit scaling buy on her busted
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u/RustOverLord 10d ago
literally just won a dns game but whatever
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u/TheseNamesDontMatter Pocket 10d ago
Yeah but what do they know when you could listen to some goober random Redditor that is confident you should build her as a support instead?
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u/sundalius Infernus 9d ago
Any build tanks a winrate if the people playing it are 90% first time players, unless character is as simple as Rat King was.
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u/de_lirioussucks 10d ago
No it’s not lmfao people should be building her with cdr and rapid recharge. Her 1 is cc spam and so is her 2.
If people stop building weird items on her she’s going to skyrocket
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u/ZombieJasus Ivy 9d ago
I think her 1&3 are good, 3 could maybe charge and cycle faster, but what do you do with her 2&4. Using both to the fullest effect seems to demand you get close, but despite her decent health pool she’s just not tanky at all.
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u/name14575 Sinclair 9d ago
If you build around her 2 you can steal spirit with 1, activate 2 and 3 simultaneously, hold down q into a cluster of enemies and then silence them with 3. Then just hold q and m1 until 2 is over, occasionally pressing 1 and if needed, use 4 to stun them and deal good burst. If you built into 2 properly, you will not die because the lifesteal at t3 is enough to sustain you if you hit 2-3 enemies with every melee.
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u/HopDodge 9d ago
I thought it was weird that her 1 has no scaling on the flat damage. Only the on bullet hit damage. It feels like it should have like 50+.7x or something to give her some burst on AOE.
The Tea needs to have a faster cast time. Waiting like 3 seconds to cast the scalding feels like an age in a fight. Especially weird since she has so much of her budget on her gun.
Two seems weird in how it works. The melee slam is really committal while being very telegraphed and parryable. I think decreasing the CD so it could be spammed easier would be nice.
Ult seems weirdly strong in terms of how interruptible it is and how delayed the damage is.
She's gonna be weak until they add a lesser spirit sap on minions and haunts (something like 4 per) and let her have empowered bullets when farming. Otherwise she's gonna struggle to fill position 1 like Celeste. Her kit is almost something of an identity crisis. She wants to be a spirit m1 like celeste, but she also has a this melee 2, and a supportive 3 with 3 possible outputs. The ult is a nuke, but also a strong CC that applies close and follows far. It's just... weird. It doesn't line up to anything.
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u/DaveDoughnut_ The Doorman 9d ago
The fact that her 2 is what makes her insane is really funny
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u/BobertRosserton 10d ago
IMO people are building badly. See a lot of full spirit or mainly melee focused when she seems like you can basically build all survivability and still do good dmg and utility. Also she is “clunky” in the sense that there’s no clear “combo”. Best I could find was always using your long leg CD before the rest of your kit because being so tall makes the brew or really all her spells way easier to hit.
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u/VoxTV1 Solomon 10d ago
She is clunky in the sense you have to go stand in front of enemies doing jack shit to use your ult also you have to wait a long time not able to do anything while brewing and you not being able to shoot during both of those.
I am not saying this is bad. Those are intentional limitations but they are objectively clunky for a frontline bruiser who is constantly in danger by the nature of their role. Like imagine if Ratking had to do a little rythint game anytime he tries to activate his 3. It would not be bad but would be clunky
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u/BobertRosserton 10d ago
The ult does seem super good until you actually try to use it in a team fight lmao, awkwardly standing in front of an entire team and hope they don’t murk you lmao. I do think people under utilize her long legs by constantly trying to go for the melee slam when it’s just a good mobility tool for the rest of her kit
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u/DODonion99 9d ago
I built one game indomitable metal skin so I wouldn't die toMo or Holliday or Haze and it felt pretty good. It does seem like itemizing the PROPER survivability is the name of the game since she can barely do anything but super jump and pray she is near a highground if she gets jumped. I think a lot of people are going too hard in on offense and thus aren't able to use their full kit since they just did
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u/BobertRosserton 9d ago
She still gets crazy spirit value if you’re hitting the thread ability so going for massive survivability/utility seems like the intended way to play for sure
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u/kazuyaminegishi 9d ago
Yeah you can see the content creators and pros are starting to figure this out. She is VERY good as a spirit bruiser. Radiant Regeneration is broken as fuck so you can basically just build around that and be functionally unkillable for quite a long time.
The heavy melee in 2 also helps with survivability by making you hard to hit consistently. You're not really using it for damage just to stick close and disrupt especially in chaotic fights.
If you can prep scalding before a fight and you have a god flank you can scalding into ult and fuck a team up, especially if you have good movement since with 2 up pretty much no one is faster than you. Just don't be greedy with ult when everyone leaves it just pop it. If you're worried about cc throw silence brew first.
Once the fight breaks out you're basically throwing 1s nonstop and brewing on cooldown as soon as you press brew press reload. Throw the soothing brew at your feet as soon as its ready and your gun is reloaded too.
The gun does a lot with fully stacked 1. I'm not sure how great QSR/Merc are yet, but honestly the gun doesn't matter THAT much it can let you run over a fight, but you're having most of your impact being close.
Also displacing people with 2 light melee is so nice especially if they aren't expecting it. You can peel pretty hard for your backline by doing it when an enemy is anout to use movement. I hit a Holliday with it as she was dash jumping and it reversed her momentum so she dash jumped backwards. Instantly ended the fight.
I think a lot of the issue with her right now is most people read her kit and thought "gun character" or "melee character" but it should start to change now there are a good few videos of her going this build now and performing well.
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u/PUNCH-WAS-SERVED Bebop 10d ago
LOL. Remember when other heroes got released, and people were quick to judge... Hell, people were wrong about characters like Celeste and Graves... By a lot. XD
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u/DankudeDabstorm 10d ago
Everyone said she was broken immediately and demanded explanations from the devs btw
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u/TheseNamesDontMatter Pocket 10d ago
I mean, she seems broken, and is now getting banned in Night Shift. It's hard to tell how good characters are day 1 when 95% of the playerbase is just kinda bad at the game.
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u/cg_dev0 Calico 9d ago
Tbf getting banned in night shift is not necessarily saying much. It may just be that teams need to figure out if they want to play against her.
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u/TheseNamesDontMatter Pocket 9d ago
She also went 2-0 and did very well.
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u/Deprespacito 9d ago
Makes sense, I feel like at night shift level hitting your 1 on someone would either lead to a kill or some major long term advantage
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u/aelx27 10d ago
Tbh she seemed difficult to play against at first but I feel like she’s not so hard to counter. I will say that I played against her AND rat king in the same lane once and it ragebaited the hell out of me
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u/hotmanwich Grey Talon 10d ago
For the first week of rat King being out (before he got nerfed a little) I never once had him on my team. I was absolutely seething. I had a HELL of a loss streak because of him and was tempted to put the game down permanently.
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u/Insane1rish 10d ago
Yeah I think her ideal playstyle hasn’t been fully figured out yet and she’s a lot more of a high skill character than Rat King. People can’t seem to decide how they wanna build/play her.
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u/GonzoTheGregarious 10d ago
Baba is like a baller support, people keep glass-cannoning on her when her utility is insane if you can just stay alive in a fight. Unironically the single biggest powerspike I've felt on this hero is having unstoppable. Prioritize green items and utility/situational spirit items, but go all in on being alive.
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u/snakebit1995 10d ago
This is gonna sound odd but I feel like she's supposed to be like Witch Doctor of Shadow Shaman in Dota
A support with some CC and a big team fight ult you wanna pop to supplement the damage of your carries.
I think people playing her as a carry have the wrong idea.
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u/Glum_Company_5017 9d ago
Her ult has extremely conditional damage, the burn on her 3 is bait, her autos put her into vulnerable melee range, her 1 is her only reliable source of damage which falls off. She is in no way a carry, but a soul efficient support
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u/GonzoTheGregarious 9d ago
Reliable source of damage? My friend, it does no damage, it's like 50 flat damage at all stages of the game.
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u/Human557ttv 10d ago
Shes hard, shes a little unintuitive, she has a lot of tech people have found but are struggling to.implement and not tons of people know about. I think we need some time to see where she settles but she definently hasn't felt D tier while playing as or against so far to me
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u/Visual217 The Doorman 10d ago
She seems to be another Sinclair/Doorman in terms of difficulty which makes win rates unreliable for determining strength.
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u/Fuck_Melone 9d ago
Character litterally just came out you have to wait and see, it's usually normal for characters to do poorly at first as people figure them out. If a brand new character has an abnormally high winrate in their first week of release it usually meams they're broken lol.
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u/DuskHourStudio The Doorman 9d ago
Her whole kit just feels.... opposite to how you'd expect it to be. By the time you fire off the ult you're dead because she's not tanky, and her magnum opus is chicken leg stomping the shit out of people - not hexing.
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u/SomeOrdinary8736 Mina 9d ago
I expected her to be entirely different before release. I thought she would some kind of team enabler, with vision and map control and pigeon wards
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u/MedicMoth 9d ago
Yeah, I was really hoping for a snappy sort of hybrid damage/healer, with bouncy movement and a lot of splash damage for area control - if we have any Paladins OGs here, my hope and expectation for her was something like how Pip used to play?
He had low cooldowns, similarly slow gum (but with arcing projectiles with AOE and a satisfying thunk noise that made the gun feel amazing). Plus low gravity / bouncy movement that made him really fun to maneuver in and out of team fights to support with his instant area heal potion.
Instead, her long legs feel clunky, her tea ability takes way too long to brew, and her transfiguration ult feels... bad. There's nothing satisfying about playing Baba even when you're winning with her
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u/Strict-Main8049 9d ago
Oh good ol pip…always being played as a DPS in my ranked games 😂…gosh I miss paladins now.
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u/DODonion99 9d ago
Weirdly enough you aren't meant to max channel the ultimate in most scenarios since you want the CC sooner and you don't want to waste too much time standing around channeling. The max channel giga damage exists so that you have the POTENTIAL to deal insane damage. This forces enemies to respond to your ult by LOS or CC you or use a defensive. This is kind of like Seven ultimate where it forces enemies to interrupt your ult or to take cover. It isn't an i-win button.
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u/NautiMain1217 10d ago
I just wish her 3 worked like TF cards from leagues just put it on a rotation while brewing and you have what you want selected once its done
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u/Regular-Bid6812 Calico 10d ago
did you know you can pause the brew process
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u/NautiMain1217 10d ago
Yeah, but it feels clunky. I'm talking about choosing what you want during the initial 'charge'
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u/Skill-Useful 9d ago
it just takes too long in total. if you want to do damage you need to wait for brewing and two thirds first and cant shoot meanwhile. ive resorted to mainly just use shield bc of the time saving
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u/Due_Battle_4330 9d ago
yeah, I think the idea is to use the second two modes either while reloading or while getting ready to engage. theres not much reason to charge when you could just shoot
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u/otcipitalorange 9d ago
yeah but throwing the shred as early as possible would be broken.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Victor 9d ago
I also thought she was like rat king but all of her kit was busted as opposed to the ult. reality is shes a bit like sinclair in terms of difficulty and doesnt do anything against pure gun heroes which valve is leaning into more.
I do think we should wait maybe… a week? Before she gets buffs because her current numbers are still pretty crazy its just people are yet to really know what shes supposed to do.
I would LOVE being able to steal a small amount of spirit from troopers and camps tho, even as an AP upgrade so its not busted in lane immediately, just so she doesnt have to resort to long legs for clearing or farm because id rather use it after for rotating. It also makes sense because haunts can actually do spirit damage now when they used to be pure weapon so it makes sense that they have spirit.
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u/CreativeTroll 10d ago
She's harder to play than Rat King and does not have a free win button like he did, give it some time for people to figure her out.
Like her kit actually seems really quite good, I just doubt we've actually found the right build and way to play her.
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u/Badwrong_ 10d ago
Too soon, plus people copy streamer dorks who think she should be melee.
Her support potential is nuts though.
- Silencing Brew
- Echo Shard
- Move in with Granny Long Legs (ground pound if possible)
- Silence Wave
- Feed the Birds
- Silencing Brew
Also, with Transcendent Cooldown this becomes even more silly.
This relies on your team doing damage of course, but you will have most of the enemy on complete lockdown.
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u/FriskyWhiskyRisk Mo & Krill 9d ago
Yesterday, I played 3 ranked games. Baba was 0:8, 1:13 and 2:10 in all 3 of them. And in 2 of them she abbandoned the game after 15-20 minutes.
First, why do people play a hero first time in a ranked. And second if you are 0:5, you should realise youre doing something wrong. Change your playstyle..
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u/Only_Bee_3056 9d ago
Can you play heroes for the first time in ranked ? Dont you need to have 15 wins ?
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u/Turrindor Bebop 9d ago
You can play new ones
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u/civildistress20 9d ago
No way this can be true. If so, wtf valve lol
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u/Charity1t 9d ago edited 9d ago
Beta test first and ranked game second.
Data is data* even if it's wrong I guess
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u/flameblast12 10d ago
Shes inevitably good when "proper draft" kicks in. In DNS shes kicking spirit comps' ass so hard
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u/artstsym Vyper 10d ago
Rat King has a low floor and two abilities which are very powerful both in isolation and even more so with teamwork. Baba's floor is significantly higher, and her strength requires her to hit with her strange pseudo-skillshot Q. I think her abilities are very interesting, but she's eminently stoppable if you know what you're doing (or if she doesn't).
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u/Signal_Code_6749 9d ago
She completely nukes spirit carries with the downside being that she’s comically weak to anyone with a half decent gun. She’s situational. She might fair better is comp or in pro play as a swap to counter spirit heavy teams. But in the randomness of standard where most teams usually have at least 1 gun carry she’s set up to lose.
She might be another Sinclair where in most games she’s kinda there doing basically nothing, but against certain team comps she’s unstoppable.
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u/Imaginary_Initial209 9d ago
Fleet foot cancels heavy melee dive on 2 allowing you to bait parrys, light melee in the air gives her forward dash momentum for free so spam that for crazy mobility ive been running tank buster spirt snach and a few good first ability’s and she can proc spirt burn on a heavy melee with her 2 up 2 is her best ability by far people are just sleeping on it
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u/ayouremq 9d ago
Feels like people are forcing damage builds onto a character that wants something weirder.
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u/Kenzzer 10d ago
Granted I am not ascendant or phantom, in fact I'm only sentinel (but often matched with mystic 4). I have been terrorizing my lobbies as baba.
The amount of spirit power she can steal early game is insane at around 100. Dive tower with the bench + teapot barrier and you dish out heavy melee hits around 300 dmg, in an aoe at that. Hello ???
She seems to fall off late game somewhat, but I have still been able to carefully silence heroes and take them out with the bench (at this point your spirit power hovers 300/400).
I genuinely think this is just a skill issue on most player that don't understand her kit. But we are going to get there, people are going to realise and they will play much better than my dumb ass. Her laning phase is very strong, I'm positive its getting nerfed.
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u/llamapanther 10d ago
Her melee is easily parried, she's slow as fuck, she has a very easy to hit model and her ult feels bad to use although in theory it deals a lot of damage. I don't think she's good and needs to be buffed. In theory she can deal a lot of damage and steal a lot of spirit, but she's just not there yet. Needs more playing at the very least but I feel she'll suck regardless. We'll see as some high rank players catch on what she's good at really.
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u/Bright-Cheek-4481 10d ago
I think this is a sentinel issue you can just parry the heavy melee and it has a rather long recovery time
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u/AHomicidalTelevision 10d ago edited 9d ago
i only played 1 match as her, and i couldnt really figure out what you should build. she has gun synergy on her q, melee synergy on her w, but a reliance on spirit damage for everything.
i'm just not good enough to be able to tell what to do.
i will say however, i did not like her 3 or 4 very much. both felt really slow to use because of how long the charge times were
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u/No_Zookeepergame_399 10d ago
Default binds are 1,2,3,4 so when you say “I did not like her e” we have no idea what you’re talking about. My E is my 2 but I’m assuming your E is her 3 based on the fact that this is a common complaint about her.
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u/sar6h 9d ago
QWER is the equivalent of 1234 in deadlock, most mobas specifically use QWER
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u/_ManMadeGod_ Infernus 10d ago
You build on hit and spirit snatch. Later game you probably want something like plated because you're huge.
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u/blacklotusY Viscous 10d ago
There hasn’t been enough time to get accurate data on Baba right now because she just came out yesterday. One day isn’t enough to accurately determine whether she’s good or not.
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u/GonzoTheGregarious 10d ago
I still keep seeing people trying to use her 1 as if it's a damage spell when it always does the same damage and it's only useful for stealing AP and keeping up the bullets. She's reliant on that buff, slow melees or her 2 to clear waves/farm in any decent timeframe. Also people are using scalding brew all the time and ignoring how insanely good the AOE silence is, and between barriers, heals and everything, scalding brew just feels like it sucks.
All the successful babas I've seen are going all into ult, spirit + melee or spirit + gun. The gun ones with good aim are actually disgusting though, that shit hurts.
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u/BladeOfWoah Silver 10d ago
People are trying to play Baba as if she is a carry or bruiser/frontline.
She CAN frontline to an extent, but so far Baba is much more similar to a support like Dynamo and Kelvin and Viscous. Baba's utility is really good, stealing spirit power from multiple heroes is effectively lessening all the damage your team takes from the enemy.
The fact that she has her cauldron and her 4 should make that more apparent but no everyone just wants to play stomp build.
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u/Unable_Signature_834 10d ago
Spirit tank/support. So so so many people that play this game are noobs, Baba isn't necessarily easy and has two stam. I haven't lost a game as baba in phantom lobbies
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u/Secretlylovesslugs 10d ago
Similar skill bracket and I've not seen a single Baba be relevant to her team. Often going very negative with low numbers besides self healing with radiant regen.
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u/oxero Graves 10d ago
Baba players a few months from now will be absolutely destroying lobbies, she's not easy to play at all.
We will look back and think "What were the devs thinking with these numbers" lol
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u/The_Confirminator 10d ago
I think also since you can parry the 2's melees, it feels like one of her abilities if effectively negated
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u/Andddoii32 10d ago
A lot of her builds are dependent on her 1 move which is insanely easy to dodge
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u/daily-lurk 9d ago
She’s going to be like Venator, where they pop off in comp play because the team knows how to actually support the character but they are gonna be mid in ranked.
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u/Xeriox2 Dynamo 9d ago
Her hitbox is basically the size of Mo+Krill or Dynamo, but they have innate healing, innate durability, punish you for getting near them, and have better movement tools. Her 1 is going to take people a long time to get used to, her 2 is very easy to overestimate, and her 3/4 abilities require a lot of channeling. Her ult also takes over 7 seconds to finish between the channel and the bird delay, giving ample time to react.
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u/TuskaDaemonSupporter 9d ago
If you're not playing into spirit characters she seems useless as most her value is silencing and stealing spirit
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