r/Music • u/theindependentonline 📰The Independent UK • 11d ago

article Paramore’s Hayley Williams unleashes profanity-filled response after DHS tells her to ‘thank’ ICE

https://www.the-independent.com/arts-entertainment/music/news/hayley-williams-ice-dhs-paramore-response-b3062326.html
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u/omeganaut 11d ago

She has more guts than the entire democrat party in the house and senate 

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 11d ago

I've found that people who keep repeating that all democrats are the same (and are apparently Nazis now, too) don't actually pay attention to what any of them say. Because while probably half of them fit the typical corporate Democrat description, most of them are often speaking out on things daily.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 11d ago

Screw anyone who says both parties are the same.

I'm a gay man. I have had my rights change three times in my life. Women lost their rights to abortions. Anyone who says both parties are the same is an idiot who is too insulated from politics for his opinion to matter

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u/kingofclubstroy 11d ago

They are not the same, however, dem leadership has repeatedly shot themselves in the foot and have catered to business interests over their constituents for decades now, resulting in large part to the situation we are in. There would not have been trump or maga if dems were pushing for and running on policies that worked for the people. You get incremental changes in that direction, here and there, but by and large both parties are beholden to their lobbyists. Dems are 1000x better, and should be voted for over republicans despite any ill feelings toward your representative, but they should not just skate by without criticism because they are the lesser of two evils, they should actually try to make positive change so we aren’t on the verge of electing a fascist every 4 years.

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 10d ago

You all say stuff like this, but then ignore the fact that after a historic voter turnout from young folks that got Obama elected, everyone celebrated like we healed the world and then everyone fucked off with voting during the midterms, so all we did is elect Obama and then let republicans take over everything else. Then 8 years later people said "well Obama didn't do most of what we wanted him to". Everyone is too caught up in this dumb ass whiny "fuck ALL politicians" rhetoric and spend no time actually trying to educate themselves on what a lot of democrats are actually fighting for.

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u/kingofclubstroy 10d ago

How about we stop blaming voters, and instead look at campaigns. We cannot really change the voters, but candidates can change what they run on. Y’all (moderates and the consultant class) have learned the wrong lesson from Obama. He won by a landslide running on a campaign of hope and change, and carried the house and senate to a majority with it. Come the mid terms, he wasn’t on the ballot to carry, and they did not adopt the same message, resulting in a loss and lack of a possibility of positive change to run on.

To add, a lot of real positive change, like a non gutted affordable healthcare bill that would have benefitted a lot more people, was hampered by corporate dems, cutting a lot of momentum from the administration and midterm results.

Y’all then think the thing to do is pivot/cater to the moderate right whose policies their lobbyists are more in favor of, rather than attempt to do what Obama did and energize the young and the disenfranchised to vote, which again was the last time the dems controlled both the house and senate.

Don’t claim to assume I’m not educated in what dems are and aren’t fighting for, or that you know better.

What was even the point of your post? To not bother trying to stand or fight for anything? Are you suggesting the best candidate is one where most of the base plugs their nose as they vote for the lesser of two evils?

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u/jamesp420 10d ago

They're not blaming voters in their entirety, they're rightfully blaming those who chose not to exercise their right to vote. Apathy or unfounded confidence that their vote isn't needed from registered voters is a huge problem, and a big part of why we end up in these situations. They're just as much to blame as both the spineless and selfish corpo wings of the democratic party.

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u/MadameFoxAdventures 8d ago

The biggest reason we have these issues is because our election process is a joke. Why do we allow the "debates" to be pissing contests to put down other candidates and avoid questions? Why do we not have ranked voting so people can vote with their conscience and we can stop this BS argument of "wasting your vote" or "voting for the other side" because people didn't vote for a dem. or rep.? Why do I see more videos of them all asking for donations than talking about their politics? We need to cap election spending and increase transparency. Special interest groups and corporations should not be allowed to contribute to a campaign, period. Plus so much more...

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u/jamesp420 8d ago

I mean if we're really getting into the nitty gritty of it, there's and endless number of really deeply embedded problems in our electoral process, many intentional.

Citizens United allowing for the ultra-wealthy to have a direct hand in influencing candidates and elections, a broken-by-design 2 party system that removes ideological diversity from the pool of candidates, an antequated Electoral College system that causes some votes to count more than others, an (intentionally) uneducated, ignorant, and/apathetic voting public that often doesn't even know what they're actually voting for, or all too often vote single issue at the cost of everything else, etc. I could keep going.

But at the end of the day, if we're going to play the blame game, the citizens of the United States still hold most of the blame. We have the power to change things, but we just don't.

Too many of us either don't pay attention, don't care, think someone else will solve these problems for us, or blindly believe what the media or social media tells them without following up to verify any of what they hear. Not to say many people don't try to make a difference, but not nearly enough to actually affect change.

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u/_TheMeepMaster_ 9d ago

Please, enlighten us. What is it that the democratic party" is actually fighting for"? You call us stupid, while you leave zero room for nuance. Tell me, if the Democrats, somehow, manage to gain back power, will you admit you were wrong when they inevitability give it back up? Or will you still be here making fucking excuses for them?

I say this as someone that has voted straight ticket Democrat since I started voting. I don't think Democrats are anywhere near as bad as Republicans, but if you think that's enough, then you're the one that's fucking stupid.

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas 11d ago

In my experience, the "both sides" arguments usually come out after I've cornered the other person on some indefensible BS that they support. 9/10 times it's a Republican saying it.

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u/PocketSurprises 11d ago

Plenty of tankie lefties will parrot that same sentiment, don’t be fooled. The call is coming from within our own house a lot of times unfortunately 

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas 10d ago

They've been coming out of the woodwork lately. We need more strong liberal advocates to push back. I'm doing what I can, but I'm only a single voice.

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u/ihohjlknk 10d ago

There is very little daylight between the Democrats and Republicans, merely on superficial gestures that Democrats have no problem abandoning when it's politically inconvenient. Both parties are liberal capitalists who are beholden to corporate money. Both parties largely are the same on foreign policy.

Since you're part of the queer community, out of curiosity, how do you feel about Democrats throwing trans people under the bus? One minute, Democrats are the "champions of trans rights", but the moment Republicans dial up the attacks on Democrats for defending a marginalized group, Democrats get incredible advice from consultants that they must abandon trans people to win the election.

Any time Democrats attempt to stand up for marginalized people, they will fold at the slightest resistance from Republicans. James Talarico, who i hope wins Texas, even he decided to throw trans people under the bus. Where's your backbone, Dems?

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u/Laiko_Kairen 10d ago

Any time Democrats attempt to stand up for marginalized people, they will fold at the slightest resistance from Republicans

And yet here I am, with my right to marry, despite Republican outrage. And here you are calling my legal equality a superficial gesture.

You are the exact kind of "it doesn't effect me so it doesn't matter" sad sack that I was describing.

The Obama years were much better for my community than the Trump years. You can try to argue away how that's "superficial" or whatever, but it's my fucking life dude. I'm gay, that's permanent, and my desire for equality was not superficial.

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u/ihohjlknk 10d ago

The right for same-sex marriage was a decades long struggle to overcome opposition from Republicans as well as Democrats. Obama himself opposed SSM until it was publicly palatable enough for him to favor it. He had to have Biden nudge him. And SSM was not decided by Congress, but by a 5-4 decision from the supreme court. Democrats could have codified it with a congressional bill, but apparently it wasn't a priority. Just like how they never bothered to codify abortion rights. and their eventual attempt to codify SSM is a compromise passed during Trump 1 that leaves a loophole to ban SSM the moment Obgerfell is overturned (stay tuned for that one.)

I used 'superficial gestures' because Democrats parlay social progressivism but will jettison it when it becomes a liability. As I said with trans rights, and when the Dems were publicly pro-immigrant during Trump 1, and suddenly during the 2024 election, they were hard-line anti-immigrant because Republicans dialed up the racism game. Democrats always adopt right-wing framing.

I ask you to look beyond your "standpoint perspective" and recognize the Democratic party are unreliable allies at best.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 10d ago

I know, I was there. I remember Obama being against my rights, and I remember him pivoting. I know they're unreliable allies. The issue I'm taking is when you paint "unreliable allies" as being the same as "hostile opposition."

That is manifestly false.

You're telling me to "look past" the fact that my rights have changed. I won't. I fought that fight for over a decade. I will not forget a decade of progress just because you have a myopic view.

How about you look past your ideological lens, stop dismissing my civil rights, and consider what point you're really trying to make. You've repeatedly said that my rights are a triviality to them. Stop ignoring that it's not a triviality to me. One party worked with me, one party worked against me, and those are facts.

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u/FunkmasterFuma 10d ago

As a trans woman please shut the fuck up. This election, I've had to watch pretty much every purple district/state Democrat do a 180 to talk about how much they ideologically oppose my existence and screech about "biological males unfairly playing in girls' sports". Then I have to be talked down to by DNC bootlickers like you about how the party has to be imperfect and how they're actually better than Republicans on these issues. I AM OBVIOUSLY COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT A TRANSPHOBIC DEMOCRAT WOULD BE BETTER THAN A TRANSPHOBIC REPUBLICAN DO NOT FUCKING BRING THAT UP. You cannot be pissed at trans people and actual trans allies for saying that the Democrats are trying to be the same as Republicans on this. It comes off as really fucking patronizing and demeaning. I deserve my rights as much as anybody else and if we don't push back on Democrats aligning themselves with Republicans, then they'll continue to do it.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 10d ago

Read this when you are calmer. You're yelling at the wrong person. I have been arguing in favor of trans rights and trans inclusion in our community for literally decades.

The way the civil rights march has always worked is that for every step forward we take, conservatives drag us half a step back. I keep referring to the LGBT community as a voting bloc because the trans community is so important to it.

One side is apathetic to us, and one side is hostile to us. We, as the LGBT community, need to stand together and continue to pressure pols to be trans-inclusive. This is the half-step back period. This is the "we stand firm" period. It's not the "well, give up and let them forget how much we matter" period.

Gaining my right to marry was the biggest victory of my life and I will not let you take that away from me. It proved to me that one side CAN be worked with, and the other side CANNOT be worked with.

Stopping voting, AKA making us invisible at the ballot box, treating both sides like they're the same, that will not help us.

They're not our true allies, but the dems are FAR more malleable to our cause. And parties tend to vote along party lines, so even a transphobic dem is more likely to fold on the issue than any GOP member ever would be. It's about party momentum. We're on the back foot. But we need to keep pushing

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u/FunkmasterFuma 10d ago

Have you not seen the transphobic dreck coming out of pretty much every Democrat in a purple district? Look at how many fucking names are on this list and the shit they're saying about trans people and tell me that that's "apathy". The Democrats are allowing full-blown hatred of trans people to fester within their ranks and it is unacceptable. If we don't put our foot down and tell the party establishment that this is unacceptable, then they won't stop at a "half-step". We have to put serious pressure with potential consequences on them or they will just continue to allow the erosion of not just trans rights, but all LGBT+ rights.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 8d ago

https://youtu.be/kXMfIKs4RV0

So I remembered your post and your clear anger. I noticed here that the one thing Talarico didn't respond to was the trans issue. He responded to everything else and trans kids just got dropped in the reply.

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u/MadameFoxAdventures 8d ago

No one is trying to dismiss your civil rights or say the matter is trivial to you... They are simply saying that occasional concessions don't erase the fact that the Democratic party consistently doesn't do enough to oppose Republicans, let alone protect any progress they may occasionally make. The democratic party is divided between corporate dems and progressive dems, which is the ONLY reason we occasionally make progress on civil and human rights but the party at large is highly inconsistent and I blame them for ALL of this because we could have had Bearnie that first Trump term. The Democratic voters (especially young ones) were disillusioned when the candidate they successfully voted for was vetoed for Hillary, so they didn't show up or voted Trump out of spite. That is squarely on the leaders of the Democratic party!

Democrats didn't codify SSM so your hard won right can be taken away at any time, just like my rights as a woman are being stripped and threatened because weak Democrats keep making concessions and refuse to make things permanent in case they need to use the SAME rights to gain support.

What we truly need is election reform: -Ranked voting so we can get away from this toxic back and forth between a rock and a hard place -Actual structured debates with actual rules for decorum along with consequences for breaking that decorum -Capped election spending -Zero special interest group or corporate funding or donations

There is more and we need reform in other areas as well but unfortunately these kinds of changes are not likely to happen... at least not anytime soon.

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u/ihohjlknk 10d ago

What is frustrating about Democrats is they are unreliable, and that actually makes them more harmful than Republicans. Republicans are unabashed bigots and enemies of the people. That's no confusion here. I will always oppose Republicans because they only inflict harm.

Democrats being unreliable is how you break people's trust with them. Being let down over and over again by Democrats only alienates people from the party, or even moves them to the GOP (as we saw happen over the past decade).

This happens because Democrats favor political expediency over ideological principles. What does the Democratic party stand for? It cannot just be "We're the lesser evil". Harm mitigation is simply not enough. You cannot just offer Diet Coke when the GOP offers Coke.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 10d ago

What is frustrating about Democrats is they are unreliable, and that actually makes them more harmful than Republicans.

The president just called for Iran to take out the city I live in

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u/ihohjlknk 10d ago

Yeah, Trump says outrageous things everyday. That doesn't invalidate my criticism of America's party politics. You know the problems with Congress existed before Trump became president, right? He's a symptom, not the root cause.

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u/Fragrant-Education-3 10d ago

And how is the strategy of turning ones nose up at the lesser evil going? Because there is now a risk that whatever turn in policy the Democrats do going forward will be undermined by the fact that people have elected to empower neo-nazis who are probably trying to work out how to never give up power again.

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u/ihohjlknk 10d ago

So you're under the assumption that "Lesser Evil Voting" is a sound strategy? Because that's literally what I, and many americans, have been doing for years. And still the problems remain. The status quo sucks, and that discontent lead people to Trump because he promised things will change, even if it lead to catastrophe. The fact that people didn't care if the institutions got blown up by Trump is an indictment of the establishment.

And you refuse to acknowledge this reality and plug your ears instead, because you were comfortable with the status quo. The status quo worked for the wealthy and well-connected. It turns out, a lot of people didn't feel the same way.

And yeah, it sucks that we're living under the Trump Reich now. But you really don't believe that Kamala shares some of the blame for not offering an appealing platform that promised to shake up the status quo and not being Biden 2.0? Because that's what she did.

Just thinking about it really frustrates me, because there was a tiny window when Dems did the Biden switcheroo with Kamala, and she had a blank slate to redefine herself. Instead, the DNC consultants took over and offered more of the same neoliberal garbage. And doubly fuck Biden for depriving the Dems of an open primary by running for a second term when he was a walking vegetable.

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u/WASD_click 11d ago

Especially because the right-wing ownership of most mainstream news networks supresses repudiation because "local politican disagrees with politician from opposing party" is about as dry as news stories get while "that celebrity you like is starting beef!" gets views.

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u/Jettx02 11d ago

All of the leadership are among the bad ones though

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u/Nolenag 10d ago

Most of the output I see from them is dunking on a left-wing Twitch streamer instead of their Republican opponents during an active election.

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u/Kile147 10d ago

The problem is that the Democrats are so ideologically diverse they essentially encompass 2 or 3 political parties. They are only together because the Republicans are so batshit that they need to unite against them. People say that the democrats suck and they are 2/3 correct, but because the Repubs are so much worse we are stuck voting for politicians who are milquetoast at best and "moderate Republicans" at worst.

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u/ArtByAntny 10d ago

Precisely. There are are members of the democratic party with completely different political ideologies. It's basically a "anyone who isn't maga" party now.

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u/rop_top 7d ago

The thing is, despite the cult optics that Trump tries to project, that's truly only one part of republicans as well. A large part, sure, but there are other sides to the party. I know quite a few Catholics that choose Trump because of abortion. They seemed to think that was was paramount over any other issues. Yes, it's stupid, but I think the more we pretend that the right is unreachable, where does that leave us exactly? Kill half the country? Seriously, what exactly is the Democratic solution to the idiocy over there? They're destroying public education, and AI is further wrecking people's critical thinking skills. At this point, I'm almost praying that the AI founders will be smart enough to force good ethics into the models, and the sheep can just learn from the AI. It's so depressing..

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 10d ago

In a country with over 300 million people, countless different cultures, backgrounds etc, there is no world where any one "party" would be on the exact same page across the board ideologically. There are good democrats and bad democrats. Recently people online have decided all dems are bad simply because one of them didnt stop all funding to Israel when they had the chance, which ignores the chaos that would ensue if we actually did that. There are very good people in the democratic party who actually should hold positions of power and waiting around for some new imaginary perfect party to pop up instead of supporting the good people on the left is just not a good idea.

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u/Typical-Carpenter342 10d ago

Democrats are commies and hate America 

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u/d0nu7 10d ago

People on the coasts don’t understand that if you go too far left you’ll lose too many voters in the middle of the country. Those “bad” democrats are often faithfully doing what democratic voters in their area want or will tolerate. This is how a democracy should function.

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u/Kile147 10d ago

The problem is that what would be considered almost the entire political spectrum in some countries is consolidated into a single party in the US, with no real option for even voicing dissatisfaction with that one party because our voting system makes any other vote a vote for batshit insanity.

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u/GovernorMarley1 11d ago

They aren't "the same."

There both bad though. Liberalism is a right wing political philosophy, and the leadership of the Democratic party will only ever be just slightly to the left of the Republicans.

I vote for Democrats out of harm reduction, but it's a joke to pretend it's a left party.

If you look at foreign policy they're almost entirely in lock-step as far as goals, they just don't like how the Republicans message it.

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u/TheNatural14063 10d ago

It wasn't the Democrats cutting foreign aid through USAID which is leading to and has lead to a lot of harm. It wasn't the Democrats cozying up to Putin like Trump has and backstabbing Ukraine to the extent Trump has. It wasn't Democrats slapping all these extra tarriffs on countries like Trump has. It wasn't Democrats who got us into a war with Iran. It wasn't Democrats who are starting conflicts with our European allies. It wasn't Democrats threatening to take Greenland and fighting with Canada over Lake Ontario.

There are considerable differences

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u/jibishot 10d ago

Ill bite.

It wasnt the democrats cutting aid. It was the dems not defending healthcare. It wasnt the dems cozing up to putin but cozying up to Bibi and israel. It wasnt dems slapping these tarriffs, it was dems refusing to raise corporate taxes or taxes on billionaires. It wasnt dems who got us into a war with iran - it was israel and the dems endless support of their warfronts. It wasnt democrars starting issues with our european counterparts, thats the cias job. It was the cia who tookover venezula and suggestes greenland. that would of happened under dems too, just wouldnt of reached the light of day for good reason. Insane idea - but thats what the cia does.

So yes, but also the gov't actions are fucked with a dem in power as well. We get some soft social benifits though, but no money changes or hard effects.

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u/TheNatural14063 10d ago

Objectively "both sides" are not the same or close. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people. Some more examples:

It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs and Biden didn't.

The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.

It is Republicans who have pushed immigration bans by adding so many countries to the ban list, largely people of color majority countries, which is racist. It is Republicans who have stripped away protections from people of color like Hatians after demonizing them with racist lies (eating pets) in the media. It is Republican leadership that has seen ICE send to Minnesota to murder American citizens. Harris wasn't doing this and Biden didn't.

It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.

It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.

It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.

Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.

.

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u/jibishot 10d ago

As i said and agree; both sides are not the same. Its the entire last paragraph.

I explained how they act the same, but the outcomes are different. Come at me about thier specific acts i mentioned, but you can miss rest. I was not obligating both sides, but the mirror of what the op commenter said.

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u/quiddity55 10d ago

“Some social benefits”
You are so privileged you can’t even see it.
Don’t ever pretend you care about trans people/minorities if you cannot see the absolute difference this administration is in comparison to the democrats.

You might be closing your eyes (and saying but the democrats are bad toooo) as they remove all protections for trans people, lock brown people up without due process and disenfranchise minority voters through executive action.

But sure. That’s just “some social benefits” to you

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u/jibishot 10d ago

Yes. My specific right to leave the country and return safley was directly threatened by a "new" president after the dems had had all power.

That is what i mean by soft social benifits. They were taken away instantly by a new administration.. that shouldnt be able to happen. Dems should of secured our rights in 2020.

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u/quiddity55 10d ago

All the power? They had a narrow majority for two years and lost the house. And more importantly, Trump put in THREE conservative supreme court justices in his first term.

And they still managed to put out some of the best bills this country has seen. If you think there is some magic legislation that can make republicans not do evil things when they are in office, I'd love to actually know what that is. Trump does not care about the law, the constitution or anything. The Voting Rights Act was a law. Trump's supreme court demolished it.

All social benefits are changeable. If there is such a huge swing from one admin to the other, then it should be even more clear to you that these two parties are not the same

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u/MadameFoxAdventures 8d ago

Social benefits aren't easily changeable if they are codified... Which could have been done but Dems choose not to. Instead they left them vulnerable so they could pivot if needed or use the threat of losing those rights to the other side as a way to gain support/power. Democrats consistently and seemingly deliberately don't do enough to protect the progress they sometimes make.

If Democrat leaders had spines then Republicans wouldn't be able to get away with blatantly disregarding laws, regulations and our constitution. Dems concede so much its embarrassing... I blame them for all of this because over the years their message has gotten so tone def. There are too few of them who ACTUALLY fight for and care about the people.

Its like watching someone get abused and not doing anything about it and then saying, "Well I wasn't the one doing the abusing so I'm not at fault." Sure, I guess but it doesn't make you a good person and I still blame you for allowing it to continue. Same with Democrats...

We could have possibly avoided this Trump nonsense if they had not disillusioned voters (especially young ones) during the primary when Bearnie won the vote and the Democratic leaders vetoed in favor of Hillary.

The magical legislation you are looking for is called election reform because our process is a joke. We should have at least implemented ranked voting ages ago but that would threaten the eternal struggle for power we currently have and neither side wants that, lest they actually have to be held accountable or listen to their constituents to continue being relevant. However, I fear it may be too late for us depending on how the near future plays out...

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u/quiddity55 8d ago edited 8d ago

Lmao of course you are a “democrats sabotaged Bernie person”. He lost, you sound just as bad as MAGA 2020 election deniers.

And again, Hillary losing led to THREE conservative supreme court justices being appointed. How can you secure any of our rights with a Supreme Court that can just nullify everything? With a president that can just blatantly disregard all laws. Which is legal now too by the way by that same Supreme Court that gave him absolute criminal immunity while he’s president

I’ve seen the stats of how many Bernie supporters voted for Trump. Maybe you didn’t but it’s people like you for why this country is in this mess

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u/hill-o 10d ago

It also feels like a very targeted (bot) thing to say near an election time to get people not to go vote, personally. 

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u/Jorfogit Spotify 11d ago

I've found that people who keep repeating that all democrats are the same

They're not all the same - most democratic voters are decent people, just roughly half of the elected Democrats in the House and Senate are absolute shitheels. The "leadership" of both Schumer and Jefferies is clearly feckless at best, because the alternative is that they fully support things like ICE and Israel.

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u/DPSOnly 11d ago

When people "both sides" something, they are specifically talking about the politicians. And that is also factually and obviously incorrect.

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u/jibishot 10d ago

Thats awesome. Its not giving roses season and half these fuckers are corporate democrats

So lets not sit on our fucking hands.

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u/3FtDick 10d ago

Oh yeah sure, Hakeem Jeffries got a lot of talking to do as long as it isn't about his foreign benefactors. In one ear I got the Kremlin and the other ear I got Netanyahu, and from above I got Elon Musk and the dweeb who invented internet stalking the website. All I hear is noise. The democrats that are doing the work are lefties every time. Traditional Democrats have been limp wristed hall monitors, a hedge for the corporate shareholders.

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u/Ildskalli 10d ago

Some of them, who are in safe districts or states, sometimes push back. But when it comes to punishing their own for complying with this criminal administration, and threatening to primary the spineless pieces of shit, suddenly they don’t have voices anymore. Mysteriously, there’s no pushback, no sanctions, and when they’re independently primaried by progressives, the whole Democratic apparatus shows in force to beat the challengers down.

Republicans suck way more than Democrats, sure, but the party’s still getting away with murder. The fact that Jeffries is pretty much guaranteed to be the next speaker of the House is a deeply shameful thing. Even the most progressive representatives aren’t doing enough to kick that useless SOB out.

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u/here_for_the_lols 11d ago

Yeah it's low key turning to a right wing plan of attack. They've moved on from "both parties are the same" to "democrats aren't stopping is are they? Theyre almost complicit"

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u/AnewTest 10d ago

And they say it while they don't give the Democrats enough seats in Congress TO do anything.

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u/dracobatman 11d ago

Tbh doesn't take much when doing anything seems to be more than they can do

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u/Strykerz3r0 11d ago

Out of curiosity, what do you want them to do?

They speak out, but most MSM in this country is owned by the billionaires and don't report it or back burner it. And republicans control Congress and block any attempts at accountability.

Remember when DHS wasn't funded? Dems put out no less than nine standalone bills to fund it and each time it was blocked by republicans because they wanted to give ICE more authority. Republicans also blocked legislation to release the Epstein files.

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u/Psych_Yer_Out 11d ago

Dems agreed to increase funding to homeland security and ICE until Trump took control, then they were suddenly against it. They are not terrible, but they are not great either. Got to hold them accountable to mistakes, however they are CLEARLY the better choice for the American people rn.

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u/pentaquine 11d ago

Because Homeland Security under the rule of law is different from Homeland Security under Fascist dictator.

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u/This_Elk_1460 11d ago

DHS has only existed for 2 decades and should be abolished

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u/AdvancedSandwiches 11d ago

The departments that were consolidated into DHS existed long before that, so unless you're doing away with the enforcement services that make it up, it won't change much. 

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u/JoyousCacophony 11d ago edited 11d ago

A lot of us warned against what they would become... along with the other few monsters created post 9/11

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u/Quixotic_Tendency 11d ago

I remember being laughed at by my relatives when I said DHS and the PATRIOT/Homeland Security act gave a lot of power to the President and essentially just assumed no one would ever abuse it, but eventually someone would. Who's laughing now?! well not me because this is a nightmare.

3

u/objectlesson 10d ago

Law enforcement will always abuse any power they are given. This is an important lesson for everyone, especially liberals who want to fund these agencies, to learn.

4

u/seeingeyegod 10d ago

just the title "Homeland...." is very reminiscent of Nazi or Soviet rhetoric.

3

u/Jettx02 11d ago

No it isn’t, it’s a fascist wing of the Administrative branch no matter who’s in charge. You don’t think homeland security was violating the rights of Americans before Trump? Have you ever heard of a guy called Edward Snowden?

1

u/LarxII 7d ago

Well, if you load the gun and hand it to the toddler, who's at fault?

12

u/Strykerz3r0 11d ago

I don't disagree, but ICE wasn't a modern version of the Brown Shirts until trump, so it is disingenuous to complain about previous funding.

10

u/This_Elk_1460 11d ago

Yes they were you just weren't paying attention. From its very creation people have been saying ice could easily be co-opted and used as a private paramilitary force. Trump was just the only one with the balls to do it.

11

u/winstondabee 11d ago

You're literally disagreeing and then agreeing in the same fucking comment.

1

u/RechargedFrenchman 11d ago

It's like half of all "discussion" on Reddit these days it feels like; seems like at least once a week someone opens a reply to me telling me I'm wrong, only to then repeat my own comment back to me as the explanation for why I'm wrong, and end telling me that the truth is [thing I said in the first place].

12

u/arielsosa 11d ago

Well. They sre withholding funds and failing to support Democrat candidates in key races just because their are "too lefty" for their taste.

The Stablishment Dems would rather lose some seats to Republicans than putting the will of their voter for over their own ambitions.

1

u/fleegness 10d ago

Examples of this?

1

u/arielsosa 9d ago

The DNC and Senior dems in office have not used funds or verbally supported:

-Melat Kyros, CO -Chris Rabb, PA -Angie Nixon, FL -Troy Jackson, ME (he's kinda getting a bit of non-monetary help, but mainly staffers from DC with their own agenda, and that's one of the reasons why Jackson is trailling Collins in recent polling, if you can believe it)

I could also mention Abdul El-Sayed, but the Stablishment Dems are easing up on him after their failed attempt at lableing him an as a "muslim extremist" connecting him to Hasan Piker, and then receiving the support of Kamala and Obama. People are also not buying the lie because you just can tell Abdul is anything but an extremist as soon as he opens his mouth. It's laughable.

There are other candidates that belong in that list but I think I've made my point.

1

u/fleegness 9d ago

First and foremost the dnc doesn't directly find candidates, they administer primaries. They also don't really have much in the way of funding as is, they're currently in debt.

But anyway, you said Dems are withholding funds in key races and then you listed off candidates in some of the bluest districts there are. 

Melats district had gone 75% Dems in presidential elections since Obama and rabb is closer to 90% in his district. Why would they throw funds at a sure thing? 

And you had to back off on all sayed as an example because they aren't actually trying to stop him outside of winning the primary against him, but if you think other people aren't allowed to support candidates you personally don't like, there's really no point in talking further.

13

u/FranktheSausage 11d ago

To represent the people more instead of there corporate overlords, real change takes commitment and saying no to money

6

u/MakeUpAnything 11d ago

It also takes 60 votes in the senate for anything not budget oriented, but yeah! Both sides are the same so vote republican or stay home until the left learns their lesson!

11

u/ngunter7 11d ago

Fucking anything

8

u/This_Elk_1460 11d ago

Stop yelling about a fucking twitch streamer and instead hyper focus on all of the horrible shit Republicans have been doing. They should be blasting Republicans 24/7 nonfucking stop! And not prioritizing fighting Hassan Parker and DSA.

8

u/smokeweedNgarden 11d ago

I have to ask what medium you're using?

I'm politically informed and none of my local or state leaders are mentioning Piker. I know nothing about Piker besides his name, it's not really widely circulating information serious journalists are covering. 

The only time is recently when Bibi said some crazy shit about NYC's Mayor supporting him

0

u/BackStabbathOG Metalhead 11d ago

Why does Piker even have relevance to this in first place? Dude abuses his dog and supports terrortists

6

u/Yeah_x10 11d ago

They’ve done that before and these same bozos will shriek that “don’t tell me about Trump and Republicans, tell me what I want to hear about how things will get better instead” 

2

u/Delicious_Cancel_708 11d ago

They’re typically the same folks as the person that you’re responding to.

4

u/NoradianCrum 11d ago

Align with what the populace overwhelmingly wants. If you aren't aligned with the masses, you are against them.

2

u/littleSparrow31 11d ago edited 11d ago

Dems could start by telling DHS to suck their fat dicks and stop funding ICE. That would get some headlines.

1

u/Strykerz3r0 9d ago

Republicans have ICE funded separately, so it isn't as easy as you say. Even when republicans were blocking the funding of DHS, ICE was already funded. Republicans were just tryto give ICE more authority.

1

u/jaywalkingly 11d ago

Tear down their opponent's cabins and throw the pieces in a river.

1

u/dukearcher 11d ago

Anything

1

u/Green-Inkling 11d ago

to actually fucking do something. i dont care if it is against the very law they want to uphold and protect. that is the problem. they want to keep doing that but Trump is having none of it and is ignoring every law that exists. you are not gonna get anywhere trying to use the law on someone who won't follow them. dems need to get off their asses, take the gloves off, and shove their foot so far up his ass it will take a surgeon to remove it.

1

u/Typical-Carpenter342 10d ago

Foreign invaders don't have rights 

1

u/Green-Inkling 10d ago

you wouldn't know a foreign invader from a legal citizen.

-1

u/AnewTest 10d ago

Then you have to do something, too. It's called getting off your ass and voting them into Congress. If they don't have enough seats in Congress to fight off Republican obstruction, they CAN'T do anything about it.

2

u/Green-Inkling 10d ago

there is a difference between can't and won't. they can do something but they won't because that is against the law. and we are back where i said. would you break the law if it meant getting orange hitler out of office or would you rather suffer under his reign because every solution you can think of is against the law?

1

u/fleegness 10d ago

So you want them to break laws in order to stop Trump while they aren't in power? How do you figure that's going to work?

1

u/Green-Inkling 10d ago

It'd work allot better than what they are doing now that for damn sure. What else is gonna stop him besides his health? The law?

1

u/fleegness 10d ago

What the fuck are you talking about? 

If the Dems decided to commit illegal acts (which you haven't even specified what those might be, largely because there really isn't anything), then law enforcement will arrest them. 

Do you understand basic reality?

1

u/Green-Inkling 10d ago

Basic reality and law enforcement would have stopped trump before he had a second term. So you don't get to use that as a defense.

1

u/fleegness 10d ago

I notice you still haven't told me what specific illegal acts Dems should have done and how they would work.

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0

u/rekniht01 11d ago

Give a profanity laced response. For a start.

-4

u/pentaquine 11d ago

So the Republicans can block the Democrats, but the Democrats cannot block the Republicans? Not that long ago, the Democrats controlled the White House, Senate, and House. They have no excuses.

5

u/MakeUpAnything 11d ago

Republicans block democrats because it's easier to block something being built than something being destroyed.

Trump has gutted multiple orgs simply by firing everybody involved and/or denying funding. There are a ton of ways you can utterly hamstring operations of organizations without any authorization from Congress, but to actually build things you tend to need 60 votes and they democrats haven't had that since a brief 60 day window during Obama's days (over a decade ago) when they passed the ACA.

Of course people like you don't care about that, you just want to pretend you're smarter than the rest and above the fray as you try to act like both sides are exactly the same. Thinking and paying attention to nuance are very hard after all!

6

u/AdvancedSandwiches 11d ago

"Not that long ago" was 7 session weeks in 2009 before Kennedy died, during which they eliminated pre-existing condition exclusions and created a healthcare marketplace.

It would have been a more ambitious plan, of course, but when people only gave you enough votes when you include Lieberman, you get Lieberman compromises.

And yes, republicans can block democrats because republicans don't have to care about the damage they do.  Democrats can't just let people suffer.  They have consciences and consequences. 

Reddit is a bad place to learn about these things, but Google will break down any particular subject in better detail. 

2

u/Delicious_Cancel_708 11d ago

Not to mention they only got that sixtieth vote with Arlen Specter switching parties at the final hour. People also don’t understand that back then, the senate democratic caucus was ACTUALLY conservative, not how they think it was now.

The caucus included senators from:

Montanax2

Arkansasx2

North Dakotax2

West Virginiax2

I guess these people really think that you could get actual conservative democrats to vote like lefty progressives.

People who whine about that period have an incredibly poor grasp of politics

-1

u/exarkann 11d ago

They could reach into those pockets and literally buy air time.

-3

u/CharlieTeller 11d ago

Well. See if you go back to the 1800s when we had some gusto and balls, members of congress literally fought one another, carried weapons, and also dueled each other. Now I'm glad we don't do that anymore, but they had balls then. Now our congress regardless of which party just sits there, makes a tweet, has a hearing and fucks off for 2 months.

Parties back in the day weren't so clean cut ideologically sorted like now. So we're basically stuck in fucked mode. But I at least respect our congresses of the past for having balls to actually do something now and then.

Congress is supposed to protect its own power. Not roll over and give it away while taking it deep.

3

u/PubePie 10d ago

democrat party

Drei Gläser!

10

u/voodoodahl 10d ago

It's wild how a thread attacking Republicans always morphs into shifting blame to democrats. 

Social media has trained you to be a useful idiot for fascists and you haven't the slightest idea.