Cornell University

[u/Timbucktwo1230]

[u/GroovyYaYa]

Yeah, not a fan of denigrating honest, hard working people.

But here is the real failure of the university with this whole thing...

In any scenario, they failed. Let us assume that the trolls are right in that she fully consented & just had buyer's remorse. (I don't believe this, but for the sake of argument)

You STILL have (a) wild gatherings at a frat house where unmanaged, unruly sex parties are going on that aren't safe or sane to the point that consent is not clear (people in the lifestyle(s) would be appalled), (b) illicit drugs and alcohol are being taken in massive quantities... and one is ketamine, and (c) your law enforcement agency is edited reports when handed over to the PA.

In all scenarios, they acted inappropriately to say the least.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/GroovyYaYa]

unruly sex parties are going on that aren't safe or sane to the point that consent is not clear (people in the lifestyle(s) would be appalled)

Well said. As someone who has engaged in consensual group sex before, this incident ticks pretty much every box of "What NOT to do". What is more alarming is those who seem to view this encounter as an acceptable way to engage in group sex. No, if you're engaging in sex this way, you are creating a situation where SA is likely to happen.

It seems there needs to be a lot more education for adolescents and young adults about what consent actually looks like in various sexual situations. I'm assuming many of them are getting this info from porn which is definitely not accurate.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

Our puritan bullshit origins have created this shroud of secrecy and shame where such things aren’t discussed, right up until you make it into a crime.

You could easily have done a signup and have everyone acknowledge you’re going to be doing substances that may limit everyone’s judgement and you are all willingly engaging in the activities. For gods sake these people are at Cornell. None of them are lawyers?

As for any potential drug charges, that’s a heck of a lot better than rape

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

You could easily have done a signup and have everyone acknowledge you’re going to be doing substances that may limit everyone’s judgement and you are all willingly engaging in the activities.

I'm a bit confused about what you're implying here, can you please clarify?

You cannot legally give blanket consent for any and all future sexual activity. Joining a party where drugs are being taken (and where you are taking them) does not mean you are consenting to any specific sexual act. I hope that's not what you're suggesting here.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

You absolutely can setup preemptive consent for a specific situation like this. Especially where you intend to do substances or roleplay that could inhibit it.

To be clear no, I’m saying she would have to have agreed she was gonna do drugs and have sex with multiple partners tonight. Everything

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

That does not seem to be the case in NY, where consent legally requires it to be active, conscious and given as the sexual activity occurs. I'm not a lawyer, but if you type what you said into google and ask if that's legal in NY, the answer is no.

While establishing consent to engage in group sex prior to anything starting is important, it still doesn't imply that "anything goes". (I'm not saying that you're saying that, but I've seen several other comments along those lines elsewhere.)

Yes, individuals who intentionally put themselves in situations such as this (where drugs are being taken and there is no-one who is sober and responsible for monitoring things) are taking the risk that they could be the perpetrator or victim of sexual assault, but that doesn't absolve any assault that may occur.

[u/Kierland → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

Depends on the situation but it is common to engage in group sex where the consent is to anything within someone’s limits up and until the safe word is spoken.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Kierland]

That's the difference between legality and ethics though.

I think most reasonable people would agree that if everyone is doing everything they reasonably can to ensure consent within established boundaries, then it is ethically ok. That doesn't always mean that it's legal, and vice versa.

[u/Kierland → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

I have never once seen anything illegal at a group event although I am sure some have drugs involved.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Kierland]

Lucky you.

I hope you're not suggesting that your experience is universal.

[u/Kierland → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

The whole point is that it isn’t or we wouldn’t be here would we?

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/Kierland]

That’s because most people who go to group events and know what they are doing and cover themselves legally. So many people still have this puritin mindset that women are innocent and don’t wanna have kinky fun sex with multiple partners.

That’s why you get it in writing.

[u/Kierland → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

I wouldn’t say most but the proper ones for sure.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/Kierland]

That’s why I said, “and know what they’re doing”

[u/GroovyYaYa → u/Kierland]

Difficult when you are being fed ketamine.

[u/Kierland → u/GroovyYaYa]

Drugs do complicate the situation for sure, add that this encounter seems to have had zero planning, rules or respect and it’s an absolute shitshow.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

That’s why I said everything.

New York’s laws cannot change how juries work and no one is going to convict when there is clear understanding and acceptance of everything that’s going to happen before doing illicit substances.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

Hence, why I focused on legality not ethics.

I think most reasonable people would agree that if everyone is doing everything they reasonably can to ensure consent in these situations within established boundaries, then it is ethically ok (which doesn't seem to have been the case in this scenario). That doesn't always mean that it's legal, and vice versa. Therefore, engaging in it is a risk that everyone is taking (both in terms of being a victim and in being legally a perpetrator).

ETA: the reverse is also true. Legally, someone could have consented, while still feeling quite uncomfortable with the act. It being legal doesn't invalidate their feelings about the experience, and ideally that would be a learning opportunity for both them and their partner(s) for how to better establish boundaries and communication going forward.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

Except in this case, it would apply to both.

Again, no prosecutor is going to waste time when they know no jury is going to convict. The legal system is basically a sport to them. It’s all about wins versus losses.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

I don't disagree, I'm just pointing out that it is a risk you're taking. As we've seen, public pressure can influence the legal system.

ETA: It also doesn't mean that it won't be reported to police in good faith and investigated prior to someone deciding not to proceed with charges / a trial.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns]

That public pressure wouldn’t exist if their lawyer coild drop a letter of her saying all the kinky stuff she wants to do.

Heck, she probably wouldn’t have tried this if something like that existed.

Note I am not saying it was or was not consensual. I do not know. I am saying they left themselves open.

[u/decisi0nsdecisi0ns → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

Did you see my edit about reporting and investigating?

[u/Specialist_Date2811 → u/Slighted_Inevitable]

they know women won't agree to what they were aiming for.

[u/Slighted_Inevitable → u/Specialist_Date2811]

Women can be just as hedonistic as men.