Why on earth is it behind NSPI headquarters (where no one but a few joggers and tourists will see) when province house/NS Legislature which houses the politicians enabling the data centre is 3 blocks away?
NSPI isn’t even supplying the power to the data centre… it’s EverWind’s project.
The same applies to NSPI Corporate Headquarters, no one there on Saturdays except some family’s going to discovery center..
Province house is still a more appropriate location given the topic and not to mention Hollis street is steadily lined with cars who, if prompted by signs will honk all day to voice their “fuck data centre” sentiments.
A protests main goal is to draw attention to an issue, doing so on the harbour away from public eye just feels like a massive miss.
All this is doing is reminding me of that Haligonian Hertiage Moment of environmentalists (who I agree with) stopping a cyclist at the anti-car/oil bridge closure protest a few years ago.
Who you make yourself visible to matters though.. even if there were 100,000 tourists, they’re not about to climb back onto the boat at the end of their visit and email an MLA to express their lack of support.
I'm hoping this will be a meet and greet for the real protest. Kudos for op for organizing this so quickly. If it wasn't on the weekend people would be complaining they couldn't make it due.to work.
as someone who spent a decade organizing in my 20s, who is organizing this? It's way too vague, on a weekend, and tucked away in the back of a business where nobody will care that you're there?
you can't "protest data centers" and expect anyone to listen. Protest a specific plan and make sure you have read and undersatnd that plan. From this I do not get the impression that you have. If the media shows up and starts asking questions you ahve to be ready to answer them.
Love this comment. What we’re watching here isn’t true, valuable protesting. It’s a bunch of naive kids who’ve got themselves whipped up by other naive kids, no one’s read a single word of any plan or agreement around here
The protest should be in Port Hawkesbury. Let’s all go up there and tell the locals what those of us in Halifax think about the proposed development in their community!
I’m not pro-ai data centres, and understand the desire to protest it.
But why at NSP, and further to that - why around back? Go to the front. Don’t be afraid to block a sidewalk and spill out into the street to get the message out.
Harassing a person at their home is a sure fire way to backfire support for the cause. Remember when the COVID whackos protested Dr Strang’s home ? Stupid idea.
Why are we protesting there? Shouldn't we be at Everwind's headquarters at the other end of the waterfront? Their head office is right next to the casino
I kinda had mixed feelings about the Houston government (Yes even during last summer) but I’m finally willing to accept that this guy has gotta go. This is just ridiculous, nobody wanted this.
Lmao, no he wasn't. He was the registered director of several holding corporations in Bermuda, where he lived. Literally anybody can do that for the cost of a few hundred dollars.
How are people so outraged and simultaneously so ill-informed? The confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance on this reddit since this announcement is approaching critical levels of psychosis.
Still, listed as VP of companies that were in a massive data dump with little to no filtering means someone was VP of a few off shore shell companies. Which isn't at all unusual if you are a professional accountant working in places that has offshore shell companies.
Without any particular allegation, what you are saying is that anyone involved in international finance, even doing mid-level professional services, is just inherently scandalous.
Because we need jobs, tax income and exposure to global markets.
The environmental and provincial impact will be minimal, they will generate their own power and water usage will incrementally increase 500k lpd on top of the existing 6.1m lpd draw on the lake (which has 34m lpd of safe usage)
No one can start any industry in this province without people getting upset and then wonder why we are so poor.
Thanks for replying, I appreciate getting your perspective.
Power use, they're offsetting *some* of their own use, not all for a long while. Until they do, the rest will come from the same supply we draw from NS Power, which will affect our rates, stability, and mean more coal and oil being burned until we're 100% clean.
Water, we can put the volume aside, the lake is suited. They're saying closed loop, which sounds good, but isn't really. One Meta is building in Wyoming purged 800,000g of waste water contaminated with sterilization-resistant bacteria into the city water supply recently. Anecdotally, anyone who's built a water-cooled computer can tell you how easy it is to get an outbreak, how badly they can fuck up your loop, and how nasty they can get.
Jobs are minimal. Construction at the start, then all they need is security and maintenance. They're big warehouses filled with GPUs running 24/7; the only people working there are swapping burnt-out GPUs. AI data centers need about 0.0002 FTEs per square foot, so about 40 permanent jobs for the 200,000 square foot phase 1. For perspective, a Superstore employs ~0.0025 FTEs per square foot, so the ~130,000 sqft Joe Howe location employs about 325 people.
Tax income, sure... IF it's profitable. Anthropic had $4.5b in revenue last year... and lost $8b doing it. Corporations are already moving away from AI due to costs, and that's while paying $1 for $3-4 of compute. We'll get payroll and property taxes up until the thing shutters.
Global markets, I'm with you, though this project and the company behind it ain't it. NS doesn't have any inherent advantages that make us better suited for producing tokens at scale, or at least not until we're generating more wind power than we can produce. The company itself, Everwind, is pivoting to data centers because its original plan to produce green hydrogen to ship to European markets has collapsed. That project was destined to be a boondoggle from the start, even if balcony solar and white hydrogen hadn't made it moot. I don't think we should be getting even deeper in to business with those fucks.
I'm not against progress. I'm against bad decisions. We've made a lot of them in the past, and this one smells a lot like those.
This project is only going to provide around 200 permanent jobs. There are substantial execution risks with this project, and the developer hasn't even finished the wind farms for their hydrogen plant yet, so how are they gonna power a data centre? Seems shady.
You have it backwards. We are poor because industries see us as a backwater wasteland full of dumb hicks that will take any low-wage body-breaking job because there's no other options. They can pay the lowest wages in the country, pay no taxes and the lowest royalties in the country, destroy ecosystems and people, and then leave the community to deal with the cleanup. The people who have wisened up to this after decades of it happening in this province are not why we're a poor have-not province
I think people should show up to protest just based on the fact that in zero public consultations were held prior to this.
Tim Houston even kicked out reporters yesterday that our contrary-minded to him.
Claire Parsons who is EverWind’s communications director asked them to leave quietly because they were not on the list and did not hold media badges, the people kicked out had assumed it was an open event.
Because that’s exactly what a closed event is… invitation only. Pretty common for companies to hold these announcements and have them invite only, this includes media.
True. I probably would have stayed at my desk and written a story asking why the Premier of Nova Scotia was announcing “good news for Nova Scotians” at a private public relations event instead of at a public media one.
Tim and the gang are hardly Hunter S. Thompson level gonzos, but note that they did get a story out of this.
You and I both know that nothing was going to happen at that press conference that was worth a full day of driving to cover. They were never going to get interesting answers to real questions at an event like that.
Talk about scares journalism resources and then go cover a press release and hour of verbal diarrhea? They've got better things to go examine.
You were never asked to leave because it was either a public event or you were invited.
This was not a public event, the people who were asked to leave did not have any press badge and were not on the list. They claimed they “thought it was public” but still proceeded to refuse to leave after they were asked.
Even if you consider Bousquet's Blog to be a media outlet the onus is on them to register. They didn't, the security guy said they weren't on the list. The event took place at a construction site on private property. Do you actually think that if you showed up you would be allowed in? Hilarious! Bousquet got his fee fees hurt because he thinks he's in the same category as legit journalists.
By security, but not in general. The security guy manning the fence isn’t the be all end all of who gets in. They weren’t allowed in, evidenced by the fact that they were asked to leave.
Their excuse was that they got past security so they were allowed to be there. If no one said anything sure, but someone noticed and told them to leave which they then opted to not leave, resulting in escalation.
Plus one thing I don’t get from their article. They thought it was a public event, but they soon found out it actually was not a public event but still refused to leave after being told. Doesn’t sound like it mattered to them whether it was public or private, I think they knew it was private and just decided to see how far they’ll get and play dumb.
The PR you’re talking about is from the people who already made up their minds on the project and company. An event with security and people go in without badges, any kind of event like that you’re getting kicked out for not having a badge, this is not a surprise at all.
Different story if they were actually on the list, held a badge and then were kicked out.
How many dinners in NYC with the Trumpy Everwind guy does Tim Houston have to have before this should be considered a project they are jointly progressing?
Wish Becky Druhan could attend this considering her opponent for Liberal leader, Amanda Mombourquette, seems to be in cahoots with this whole project and it’s being developed in her riding! Can’t tell me she didn’t know about all this! She’s in the photos from yesterday’s huge announcement!
This is going to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We're protesting on a Saturday behind Nova Scotia Power, a private company that has absolutely fuck all to do with this data centre. This just goes to show how dumb this whole thing is.
I'm not sure if I am one of your three acknowledged idiots, but i will add this. Data centers are controversial because of natural resource (water) consumption, and site proximity to residential areas. These are the two big ones I'm aware of. For the new NS location, I don't know yet how either of these issues apply. I am also aware of newer centers recycling water. Bottom line, it may be too early for protests. Regardless, there should have been public consultation before committing to the project.
As someone slightly familiar with the location, point Tupper is an industrial zone. PHPaper has been there for 60 years. There is no residential areas there save for maybe 2 houses.
As for the water: Landrie lake is (if I recall correctly) the aquifer where the town of Port Hawkesbury gets their residential water, so id assume consumption will affect the town if that's true.
Wastewater will presumably be dumped into the strait of cameo, and although the pulp mill has been dumped wastewater into the strait for many years, more wastewater is def not a good thing.
They can’t even say who is behind the fucking project. Like a god damn Batman villain. How you can see any good in these builds from what’s happing all over the world with them makes you intentionally ignorant.
Have not kept up with this issue, but since we’re so deep in the red with significant infrastructure costs going up; we either need creative ways to generate tax revenue and/or increase our exports + GDP per person. We need options and revenue, fast.
Your content has been removed because it included personal attacks, insults, or an unnecessarily hostile tone toward another user. Disagreeing is fine but targeting or belittling people is not. Keep discussion focused on ideas, not individuals.
Its against, mainly the fact that there was no prior discussion, there are no regulations or safeguards in place in NS or in Canada for data centre creation, and generative AI data centres are known to cause harm to the environment, the people, the wildlife that surround them. I would also assume the fact that OpenAI is owned by a pedophile, and that Generative AI is being used to make CSAM (legally, apparently), in addition to the fact that Generative AI steals from artists and does not create very many actual long-term jobs, are also all playing a part
You can "just say" all you want, and yes those can cause harm, but the fact is roads and highways are not comparable to generative AI. Interesting what you took from my comment.
It’s actually only $400 million in municipal tax revenue. Not Provincial. And if you think that an “increased responsibility,” pay raise for the higher ups isn’t coming out of that…
Nova Scotia is a bankrupt province and people want to drive away any semblance of new businesses in this province. We’re going to have to face the music pretty soon, our expectations of government doesn’t match the economic reality.
Data centers don't create permanent jobs at any sort of scale, let alone 2200. Once they're built, the only people working there are hardware maintenance and security. Picture a fully robotic factory where the only a person does is swap robots when they wear out. Except factories actually produce things. AIl ai data centers produce is slop, scams, hacks, targeting data, psychosis, and confidently wrong summaries of real people's work.
Just for your awareness, AI data centres don’t just support chatbots. Your bank transactions rely on them. Google and Apple Maps. Fraud detection for companies handling your data.
The numbers are repeated over and over in here. They weren’t just pulled out of thin air. I’m not doing the leg work for you because you chose to live in your own little bubble of denial.
Because there isn’t a state sponsored anti-AI social media boosting campaign for protesting water usage of golf courses.
Both can be real issues, but it’s pretty obvious that specially the water usage portion of data centre opposition is nonsense.
We could virtually decimate global fresh water overuse be being slightly more selective in agriculture, but no one gives a shit.
Personally, I’d like to see existing industrial regulations enforced on all businesses including AI based ones.
I’d also like to see existing intellectual property laws have teeth against megacorps building these technologies on the backs of all protected human knowledge we’ve ever collected and made laws to protect. IP creators, including every single redditor, have not been properly compensated for our contributions to these tools.
I’d like to see stronger regulations preventing these tools from being used to spread propaganda and misinformation and harassment.
I’d like to see stronger labour laws to protect working folks against disruptive changes to the labour force caused by these technologies, and safeguards put in place for their use in the military industrial complex.
And I’d like to see these businesses be responsible for their own energy infrastructure and production, rather than being subsidized by the government, given their ridiculous value proposition.
But holy shit the water thing is not what I want to hear about anymore.
I quite literally replied to a thread about water usage and gave several reasons why to be upset about how AI companies are not properly being regulated…
Your content has been removed because it included personal attacks, insults, or an unnecessarily hostile tone toward another user. Disagreeing is fine but targeting or belittling people is not. Keep discussion focused on ideas, not individuals.
Average golf course in Canada employs 24 people. The average large AI data center averages 150+
While using half the water. And a tiny fraction of the space.
So if you are doing the math on this the 6 golf courses in the HRM employs 144 people using 1,704 acres of land and 6,600,000 liters of water per day vs the data center on 4.6 acres using 500,000 liters employing (According to the company building it) 215 people.
I ask again, why are people in the HRM protesting a data center in Port Hawkesbury when they have smaller employers destroying more land and using more water without a peep?
Good start, and I hope to see some sustainable plans for bringing in a larger group once there is momentum.
That little notice will only work for people who have no kids or elder responsibilities, don't work weekends and didn't have plans. If this is not a short <2 week protest, it isn't good to drop everything for it instead of mainintaing balance. (And I don't think it'll be short)
The data centre being proposed isn’t in Halifax. So kinda missing the point.
Everwind have 2GW+ of wind energy developments underway. Not all of them will be built, but they have like 700-1GW that’s basically shovel ready. Green hydrogen was the original plan, but they’ve done what most businesses would do if they invested millions and couldn’t monetize - they found another plan.
So to answer - over the entirety of the year, the new load will balance their new wind generation. Will it match minute for minute? Likely not.
Another thing most people don’t realize - any extremely large load - port hawksbury power, Michelin, etc are interruptible loads. That means during peak grid demand, NSP/the grid operator can shut them off. A large data centre connected to the grid would be the same.
Water use concerns are also overblown in Canada. Very few designers of any large cooling system opt to use cooling towers in Canada anymore. These are an open loop that use water spray to provide the cooling. Most chiller systems now are closed loop air cooled - basically like the condenser of your heat pump. They often run glycol through the loop to allow for cooling through the winter. From a building code and permitting standpoint, we can enforce this very easily.
Let’s separate a lot of the frivolity and ridiculousness that people think they understand about data centres, our grid, water and let’s look at actual facts.
Everyone has the same overblown ridiculous attitude to offshore wind, solar farms, data centres, gold mining…
At the end of the day we have a shit economy. I think it’s time for us to actually create some jobs and economic benefit - and there’s nothing stopping us doing this is a best practices way.
Do you believe “the cloud” is an actual cloud? Do you understand how infrastructure works? Economy? Has anyone protesting the data centres actually done any research? Or just seen a post saying it’s bad and it’s monkey see monkey say?
No,no of course....every one who has concerns about data centres are simply fools who have no idea of how anything works and are obvious victims of propaganda.
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u/Dartmouththedude Dartmouth 12h ago
Why on earth is it behind NSPI headquarters (where no one but a few joggers and tourists will see) when province house/NS Legislature which houses the politicians enabling the data centre is 3 blocks away?
NSPI isn’t even supplying the power to the data centre… it’s EverWind’s project.