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I personally do too and I've explicitly said that's fine for me (especially growing up California got bro, homie) but appreciate their confusion and encourage hesitance with others as they are still in the masculine
"Dude" won't be fully de-genderized until you can ask a guy how many "dudes" he's had sex with and he will reply with the number of women, not a statement that he wasn't gay.
Or being able to say "I saw a really hot dude at the gym" and the other person asking if it was a guy or a woman.
I see your point, but if the dude in question is heterosexual then that merits gendered language to refer to their preferred partner's gender identity.
Now if it's a bisexual dude referring to various-gendered potential partners as "dude", THAT'S when we know we've made it as a species.
My thing about degendering "dude" and "guy" is why is it always traditionally masculine terms that get applied to everybody? It just feels like male-defaultism.
That’s not “de-genderizing” that’s just masculine defaultism. You’re just deciding that a masculine term can be used for anyone because you want it to be.
Thank you! I will use masculine terms sometimes, but outside of some queer circles where "girl" is used for anyone regardless of gender (and sometimes "bitch"), the only gendered terms people swear apply to everyone are masculine terms.
I have problems with changing pronouns and I hate it because my brain is a bitch. I WANT to do the right thing and then my bitch ass mouth won't do the right thing.
Yeah my memory problems are the only reason I have a problem with this, but I do try. And I let all my friends know if I ever get it wrong it’s not because I don’t care it’s just because I’m stupid.
I was on a group call with 3 of my best friends and I fucked up the pronunciation of one of their last names. They corrected me for the 20th time and I was like "I'm sorry, I'm trying I'm just stupid." With zero hesitation all of them said "we know you are" at the same time.
I have a friend who recently transitioned and I fuck up their pronouns all the god damn time. It's not for lack of caring or trying, I'm just really fucking stupid. I talked to them about it recently to make sure they knew my heart was indeed in the right place got hit with a "I know, you care, you're just a little slow" lol
My brain attempts to ruin me. I have a friend that I met after she transitioned, and she told me her dead name one day for some paperwork I was doing.
From for a solid month after my brain just decided that the dead name was interchangeable with her actual name, and I nearly fucked it up like three times.
same. forget names, (ha) i can't even remember pronouns - i just call them by whatever my brain decides they look more like and pray to every got who will listen i don't fuck up.
it's been a real life-saver that my friend groups agree that 'dude' is gender neutral.
lol I'm a total face person. My wife always teases me because there are people Ive interacted with for years but cant remember their face. We'd go down to the farmer's market and I'm like "ooh I want to get a cinnamon roll from the bakery girl," and she gives me this look like "You've known her four years. We went to her three year old's birthday party. How the hell is she still the 'bakery girl' to you?"
I'm nearly 50. It's been incredibly liberating to reach an age where I just tell it like it is 'cause I don't care for beating around the bush any more. I've never once had anyone take offense when I say, "Sorry, I'm terrible with names, what's yours again?"
Most people really overestimate how offended other people get when there's no malice involved.
Yeah, idk any trans people who get angry about it right away or anything. I mean, if we're 3+ years in and you're still doing it, we're gonna have to talk. But like, trans people are pretty down to earth and laid back about this stuff in my experience.
Edit: I do want to remind everyone that trans people are facing a worldwide genocide right now.
Republicans are taking away our ID's, healthcare, discrimination protections, and recognition of any sort. The UK is preventing trans people from existing in many public spaces, shutting down their healthcare clinics, and taking away their rights at breakneck speeds. And these ideologies are spreading rapidly.
We need your help. We need you to stand up for us and be loud. Make us a priority and remind everyone that trans people are humans who deserve equality. We matter.
You can't pretend to be an ally while ignoring trans lives.
I've had 4 people in my life change their preferred gender and/or name after I'd known them for a few years, and literally none of them have ever gotten angry at me when I slip up. In fact they usually use it as an opportunity to joke. One of them made a fictitious "misgender jar"
The people who yell that we're unreasonable are the ones who are like "that's not your real name! You're delusional! I'll never call you that!" And then we're like "ok then I guess we're not talking" and then they scream "trans people are bad!" or whatever.
The right like to act like an accidental misgendering sends every trans people into a psychotic frenzy, when the majority of us will just calmly correct you. Hell, I don't even do that sometimes, I just don't care that much when someone I've never even talked to before gets it wrong.
It helps them feel more justified for going out of their way to be rude to people, and misgender/deadname them on purpose because 'They're all just crazy people anyways'.
I used to default call everyone "Steve" because I was shit with remembering names.
Right until I accidentally deadnamed a shy transgirl in college. I not only made her feel like shit, and made her think that the school counselor had outted her and given one of the only other five Queers on campus her deadname (cause it was a rural stupid place in the early 2000), but my joke of calling someone who was obviously female to me a dudes name was not cool even then and the other transgal there basically ate me alive because of the use of the name.
I was a little less public enemy number one after they realized that it was the default name I used, not an actual attack on her. Just a really bad coincidence. Still. I swapped out Steve for Sven after that in case I ever did it to someone else.
I get pretty uncomfy when someone misgendered me at this point. But I've also been out for years and completely pass. So it almost feels intentional if someone does it now, and sometimes it is intentional.
Yeah, misgendering also makes my skin itch, but I don’t pass and most of my friends have 0 experience with trans people. They’re not being disrespectful on purpose though, and tend to apologise like crazy when they do misgender me, they’re just very unused to it all.
The thing with childhood friends as a trans person is that I'm not sure if this problem ever goes away.
I need to reset my boundaries on pronouns again because theres this annoying cycle where over the course of 3-5 months they drift towards only using they/them for me and its extremely noticeable when you're being non-gendered intentionally.
It also sucks because its not outright malicious, so its hard to be confrontational about it despite the fact that it does have a pretty solid impact on my day when I'm noticeably never gendered in conversation while everyone else gets a him or a her.
I have a friend I've known for 33 years, since I was 5 years old, and he never uses the wrong name or pronouns for me. Another I've known for 20 and he also never messes up.
He was “Ellie” and then “Michael” but has decided to live with “Ellie” given the current political climate and is in college now with a boyfriend and a friend group who only know him as Ellie and so it’s always this confusing mish-mash where I have to mentally sort through the context before using any names and pronouns and I live in constant fear of fucking it up but I love my kid so I deal.
No idea if you have other kids, but mixing up your kids names seem to be common enough that you could correct yourself on the fly and act like you swapped your children's names if it is relevant for their safety. My mom still rotates through three names sometimes with me and I had the same name for 31 years. The only one I can really not fault her for is my fathers name, as I am his carbon copy, not only in looks but in manners as well.
we can tell when an effort is made. for me personally I don't think the effort is that hard, but I'll accept I have bias here.
you can say "oops sorry I meant she" and be fine. don't be weird, overly apologetic about it. we don't want to make a big deal about it either.
but.... when it's been years, when the transition is too apparent to ignore, when you use "they" for a person who doesn't use that pronouns to avoid either one, intentionally or not.... it kinda sucks. no one's gonna hunt you down with pitchforks and torches; nowadays it's more likely that behavior and worse will get you wealthy beyond your wildest dreams on GoFundMe.
we don't have a lot of footing in the world, we never did. this small showing of respect costs nothing, and an adjustment period is fine, but it's hard for me to feel bad for you about it. yeah boo hoo you made a social faux pas with zero consequences outside of your relationship with that particular person, I have to live with the fact that you think it's not a big deal, that it's hard to remember, that it's not disrespectful.
Exactly. I had a friend named Bob. Everyone called him Bob. Then one day he decided he wanted to go by Robert. Nearly everyone started calling him Robert (with the occasional slip), except two of our friends that were being giant assholes about it. "Oh god, you're so dramatic. It's just a name, why should I have to change my behavior?"
Thing is, we can generally tell when it’s a genuine error or not. There are people who act deliberately transphobic and then get upset when we don’t believe them after they say “it was just a mistake!” If you’re not one of those people, no one’s gonna get mad at you for accidentally using someone’s deadname
Yeah, but there's a lot of transphobes that take advantage of this to be very hateful. My transphobic af father refused to adjust after 2 years - my mom adjusted after a few months. We know it can take a while, but we also know when it is and isn't intentional. If we do it with women and last names all the time (Mrs. ____) we can change a trans person's first name (and last if they so choose, like me)
There is always a classic difference between somebody who sincerely is trying to do things proper, but sometimes fumbles, and somebody who makes empty promises while putting on the facade of being progressive while secretly being anti west anti lgbt anti dem etc. You can usually tell the sincere versus insincere pretty easily if you care to look.
I knew that would be the first comment. This comic is about people pretending not deadnaming is just too hard or deadnaming is justified, you know who we're talking about.
except we all know that's not the issue being referenced here. It's not about people making honest mistakes, but people who go, "I don't care what YOU want me to call you, I'll call you whatever I want, even if you don't like it."
I knew there would be hiccups when I transitioned, but one guy that sits right next to me that knew me before I transitioned at another job would call me by my chosen name, but would purposefully misgender me for an entire year. I corrected him each time. I thought I'd give him some leeway, because he's in his 50s like me, but I guess you can't fix stupid or maliciousness, because he kept on until finally I sent him an email, officially going on record and creating a paper trail that I did not like it when he misgendered me. Now he doesn't talk to me at all and it's great. :)
With how terrible I am with names I’d probably accidentally end up calling them variations of a mixture of the two names for a few seconds then go “hey buddy.” 😅
I grew up routinely being called the wrong name by my mother. Sometimes she would go down the list of all my siblings to get to me. I used to make fun of her for that so of course I inherited the same disease.
I had a classmate in 11th grade who went by his middle name because he disliked his first name. This had never been a problem throughout most of his school days.
Cue one math teacher who decided this was an affront to his sensibilities and outright refused to call him anything other than his first name. I never understood that level of pettiness.
I have some trans friends. My struggle is more that I have known them by a different name and pronoun most of my life and it is hard to switch gears. I still try my best but I slip up sometimes and feel bad about it.
I think making a genuine effort is what makes the difference between being a supportive friend who sometimes slips up and being a total transphobe who insists on deadnaming and misgendering someone.
If they're like any other normal person they'll see your trying and not purposely doing it out of malice. My friend introduced me to a friend group with a trans woman and I fucked up constantly. She didn't even correct me or bring it up once, I've gotten used to it now.
Really opened my eyes that people who are terminally online or Twitter focused that crucify you for a mistake do not represent the normal people just living their lives.
Additionally, when a woman gets married & changes her name, the "DUUUR PRONOUNS" people are able to change their term of address for that person *instantly* so this is even less of a legit complaint from them. And they can get their drivers license, bank account, work ID, etc changed *immediately*. The only problem is that it makes some people "feel bad" having to remember that there are people different from them in the world. Zero sympathy for those losers.
Might be narrowly related, but god do I love the fact that I'm a native Hungarian speaker. We can't misgender anyone, we don't even have pronouns to begin with! (Ő for singular use like he/she/it, Ők for plural, as in they)
Had a friend who transitioned. She went from Shane to Maddie. I still call her Shane by accident all the time. It’s been like three years now too. And every time I call her Shane I feel awful. Like I’m not ignorant. I’m just dumb.
She always tell me hey at least you care enough to be upset when you get it wrong. She appreciates that I try. That’s all it takes man. You can get it wrong once in a while but it’s really as simple as that. Just call em by a different name. My name is James. I want people to call me Jim. Nobody cares. Why do we have to care just because the gender changes
God, same, man. I frequently do this myself. And I don't mean to - I'm just really bad at cataloging names. Really bad. Like I still have coworkers I've been around for 4 years and still can't remember their names on demand.
So every time I accidentally do this, I have to do the dance of "I'm so sorry, I'm not doing it on purpose, I'm still just re learning your name and IT IS A PROCESS."
Being polite to someone requires at least a minimal respect for them as a human person. The right have spent several generations actively dehumanizing minorities, and the last 12 years focused on dehumanizing trans people. They have convinced their followers that we are not worthy of respect, and therefore unworthy of manners.
I knew someone who's given name was Ralphael. He prefered either his full name or just the first syllable. So instead of "Ralph" where the letter "L" is pronounced, he preferred "Roff". It took time to get it right but I made the effort because it was the correct thing to do.
If you watch fox news (don't), you will see why. Its amazing how they are able to get away with the blatant lies they spread on that program. Should be illegal to intentionally spread misinformation to incite hatred and bigotry.
Well, I'm kinda excited for his fictional world. It sounds neat. All the men would look so pretty in their dresses.
Edit: I do want to remind everyone that trans people are facing a worldwide genocide right now.
Republicans are taking away our ID's, healthcare, discrimination protections, and recognition of any sort. The UK is preventing trans people from existing in many public spaces, shutting down their healthcare clinics, and taking away their rights at breakneck speeds. And these ideologies are spreading rapidly.
We need your help. We need you to stand up for us and be loud. Make us a priority and remind everyone that trans people are humans who deserve equality. We matter.
You can't pretend to be an ally while ignoring trans lives.
There was only one exception I ever had with this. I had a friend who transitioned and insisted I call her, “Dawn Stormbreaker” in entirety. I said I’m not going to regularly do that.
Right? If someone's parents give them an incredibly stupid, long-winded, delusional larper name, I'm not going to use that either. I don't care what your gender or name is. I care that you aren't tacking an annoying vanity-plate to your head and expecting everyone else to go out their way to indulge to you.
You can have Dawn. You can have Storm. You cannot have me consistently saying that whole thing though.
I changed my name in my 30s in preparation for transitioning to male. I had one dude that straight up refused to abide by my name. We were at a Larp dinner party event thing after the actual larp. I just kept throwing spoons at his head, and let me tell you that smacking spoons off someone's face and forehead will change their behavior faster than any other method I have tried.
Dudes girlfriend at the time (Soon to be an ex) gathered up all the spoons and kept bringing them back to me. He eventually was like "Will you stop giving him spoons!!!!!)
Been saying this for years. If Brad changed his name to Steve, no one bats an eye. But if Brad changes to Claire, suddenly it's "how dare you not care for the name your parents gave you!"
We all know people that don't go by their given name. Some do by a shortened name, some by a middle name, some by last name, some by a completely random nickname. Who cares. And you are a dick if you ignore that.
I go by a name that has absolutely nothing to do with my birth name (kinda like Max and Kali, in your example) and I would constantly get questions from my teachers about it. "I don't like my name. I like this name more" was hard for them to understand, apparently. Shout out to my Japanese teacher, though. She even taught me how to write my new name in Japanese
A former friend of mine once said he refused to call someone "they/them". When I asked why, he said "because it weird".
I told him I thought it was weird too, but if it makes them (har har) happy, why not just do it anyway? It doesn't hurt anyone, it costs zero effort and it makes someone happy. I fail to see the issue.
I do my best to be mindful and supportive. My Autism, however, thinks names aren't a priority when you can remember faces & stories. So learning a name the first time is an arduous task of having to train myself to say, "Their name is Matt... Their name is Matt..."
If you decide to change your name for whatever reason, awesome! I support you in strengthening your identity! But I ask for time to re-learn your new name. I'm sorry in advance if I deadname or use the wrong pronoun, and I will try to do better. But I just ask for kindness as you correct me. Help me to learn the new you with the same patience the old you extended the first time you met me, please.
My brother didn't like his name as a kid, since it sounded a little girly, so he decided to use a variant that he liked better. Then as he became an adult, he decided that name sounded a little childish, so he uses a shortened form instead.
My dad uses his middle name instead of his first name since he felt his first name was too childish as well.
My mom was once just called by her first name, then when she became an adult she was called by her last name, starting with Ms. Then she got married and went by Mrs. with a different last name instead.
If at any point anyone decided to use any of their previous names even after being corrected, it would have been seen as a pretty serious insult against them. They'd effectively be calling my brother girly, my brother or father childish, or denying my mother's marriage as illegitimate. All of them would be rightfully offended, and the rest of us would call them out on it and pointedly ask what their problem was.
It's never, ever, ever about not wanting to call someone by their "true" name, or it being too hard to remember, or any of the other crappy excuses they use. It's always about transphobia and denial of identity.
Mf’s will say gulf of america or lake america or use what ever stupid ass name that orange blob comes up with no issue. But I ask to be called Dahlia instead of David and all the sudden its “well its hard, Im no good and remembering, please dont mind if I misgender you for the next 12 months pronouns are hard!!”…
Im so sick and tired of my existence being “difficult” for anyone but me. Like its not yall that are slamming your boobs into every doorway, or having you cat crush your tatas. It aint that hard to at least effing try….
It’s hard. Even when it’s just a simple name and not a larger transition. I had a long time friend who changed from his English name back to his Japanese name and it took a while to get it right, even if I always corrected myself
It really is. Too bad the people who need to understand and read this are so bigoted that they find the idea of calling someone by their preferred name the greatest insult ever.
How is something this simple so hard to grasp? It's "woke" to have basic respect apparently. And this is the bare minimum too!
"Oh, there's this person whose name I forgot, awkward. I can't just ask, after three months!
"
"Hi, just so you know, I go by Terry now!"
"Phew. Erm, I mean, hi."
It's not always easy, I raised him since he was born, he goes by a male name now and I've gotten used to calling him "he", that part is easy, but when you've spent 27 years calling them by their first name, and also 4 different nicknames/pet names that are attached to said first name, it's not always easy
I've met his friends, but I don't know their dead names, so that part is easy
God I’m remembering an absolutely flub I made at a bakery/coffee shop. I have a habit of calling people sir, or ma’am thanks to my uk school education.
The barrister was presenting as non binary and after they handed me my coffee I said “thankyou sir!” It just slipped out, pretty sure I’d have said the same thing to the most feminine presenting woman on earth wearing a giant she/her neon light badge.
I think my face conveyed my oopsey but I just sort of locked up and left…. God I cringe I nearly went back to apologize the next day but then my social awkwardness ramped into overdrive.
If you are reading this staff member of boxcar bakery in Essex, VT I am sorry if I misgendered you.
I told a small group of friends I go by Lucy now. You know what one of them did? Immediately gave me the nickname Lulu, which she uses to be a menace. Lmao.
They accepted it, and used it. And I love them for it.
I can't remember half of my cousins' names, but my trans cousin's name got updated, I can remember his name so easily now. He had chosen a unique name so no problems there. He is an Ambrose in a John's world.
My son has a classmate whose parents are a cis woman and another non-binary parent who was afab. Their child calls them their Mama and Zaza, respectively. Their Zaza is still transitioning and at the moment resembles a very butch woman or a particularly feminine man. Very androgynous.
I've had no problem whatsoever calling them their kids' Zaza. Hasn't been an issue even once, but for whatever reason, if I have to use their personal pronouns, it's a coin-flip whether I fuck it up and use she/her or not. They're very forgiving of it and I do apologize when it happens and I do refer to them as they/them in private. I've even asked my wife to correct me if I don't catch myself. I have no real point to this, that's just me. At this point it might be easier if they just adopted me.
It really is that easy. Sure, people might mess up as habits can be hard to break, but then you just make a sincere apology and keep trying until the new name is the habit.
My biggest issue is the way my memory works is when I recall memories, their dead name is what comes to mind.
My brain forever stamps their name at the time the memory was created. And it’s not like I notice this is happening. I’ll just be going along calling them their new name without effort but then have a trip down memory lane and say “remember when (dead name) did this?”
Just the way my brain works. It’s a large mental burden to second guess myself every time I say something.
My aunt adjusted how she likes to be called. She was Jenny until I was in my 20s/she was in her 60s and then decided that she would like to be called Jen now.
My sister refuses to call her Jen. I don't mean that she just keeps forgetting, I mean she has said "I won't call her that." Politically she's fairly progressive so I called her on it and asked if she's just going to deadname our aunt and she said "yes"
In my defense I needed to put in reminders on my phone to make sure I didn’t keep forgetting when my GF changed her name, I’m awful at remembering names to begin with but she knew that thankfully
Nah bro seems like a Jeff....going call him jeff....i know what his name should be more then him. They cant know know best name for themselves, only I can know that..... sarcasm ....making fun of how always claim name doesn't fit you.
"Oh thats nice [deadname], anyways how are things [deadname]? Hm? My friend? Oh yeah [wrong pronoun] is fine, I just dont know why [wrong pronoun] wants to be [actual name] now, [deadname] is what I know anywyas. Wait whats wrong [deadname]?"
I am actually of the opinion that it's not that simple, but I still agree we should still do
I feel like trivializing the idea of reconceptualizing someone you knew make it sound like you really don't understand the person that has this struggle.
Again, I don't think it's a good excuse to misgender/deadname someone, but when I was conservative I thought a lot of people were full of shit because they trivialized things that I actually struggled with myself. I just thought they were all pretending it was no big deal.
My mom is one of those people, is relatively progressive but is scared for certain language that keeps her a 'conservative'. Conservative propaganda pushes these type of posts to make fun of people for being just a decent human being.
We live in an heavily gendered society, despite what people may want, and that affects language. It's much easier to remember someone changed their name to something that matches the gender you knew them as than the opposite.
My point I guess is some names are hard to say in your accent, some communities you're not gonna know enough to interact with without putting your foot in your mouth, and in real life, dead naming someone by accident isn't a big deal as long as it's actually on accident.
But it can feel like it's going to be big deal, mainly because of posts like this that make it sound like you just do not understand the struggle, even though it's small related to the struggles of the person being deadnamed. I haven't had any trans person be upset when I was ignorant in real life, but I have seen hundred of posts being condescending to hypothetical people.
Just to be clear: Op is very clearly talking to people who pretend remembing a different name is difficult as an excuse not to learn or change their behavior. I am just trying to provide a different outlook on how people not in your circle may respond to it
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