For England. Not for Ireland, Scotland or Wales. They'll immediately start the process to rejoin the EU. Happy days ahead. You'll always have London, they'll pay the bills for the rest of the country.
TBH, I live in Scotland; how do you think I feel? I need to put up with these deluded maniacs every day. Scotland doesn't meet the criteria for EU membership, but they just struggle to understand this. They also can't understand that the majority of Scotland's trade is with England. They seem to think that they will be leaving with no debt, we will have a part of the UK debt. We don't even have a currency to use, they think it will be OK to just keep using the British pound, so they will essentially be forced by themselves to follow the English banking system.
Up here in Scotland, the SNP and their cult members don't actually sell you anything solid and positive, backed up with facts. It's all buzzwords and slogans like "Hope over Fear" or "We can do it". They might as well just ask BBC Scotland to play Braveheart on an endless loop. They believe that England is stealing their electricity; you tell them that Scotland does not own any electricity, and the electricity they are actually speaking about is owned by a Spanish Company. It's the same with the water; they believe an independent Scotland will make endless cash selling water to England.
And in that article where it says Northern Ireland leaders, that is leaders that has the blood of many women and children on their hands.
It's the politics of resentment. Not saying England is without fault, but they think England is holding Scotland by the balls. The average English person is way more moderate than they paint.
Even if they are pro-independence, it's better to do it without engaging in the politics of resentment. It will just lead to more stupid nationalism down here south of the border - more reform bullshit.
There is literally no transfer of Scottish water to âEnglandâ, you absolute peanut. The infrastructure doesnât exist for it. Youâre not âchargedâ for anything.
Is this the 2026 version of weird Scottish nationalists banging on about the âWhisky taxâ in 2014? Genuinely braindead stuff.
"Scottish Government still considers that there is no commercial viability of bulk export of water to England or internationally owing to the high costs of transport and pumping and the volume of water required"
You do realise England would pull all their resources and military defense out of you guys before you become independent? Very funny you don't realise this.
What criteria do they not meet? besides being independent ofcourse. Also what do you mean you don't have a currency to use? Euro is a part of the appeal of the EU.
The criteria set out by the EU. But even at that, what is the plan. Is the plan to just get Indy, get into the EU, then start sponging off the rest of Europe.
Despite what some people like to think, things like the cost of living issues aren't unique to us. All countries are getting hit with it, and all of them are tightening their belts.
Yeah if that's the quality of your answer, Scotland actually does meet the criteria set out by the EU. The rest of your issues might be valid though, i'm not Scottish but quality of life has been hit everywhere indeed.
Numerous times the EU have repeatedly said they don't just want Scotland,Wales or NI they want the whole of the UK or nothing. Also you don't meet the economic requirements since you're a national deficit to the treasury. Not to mention you'd have to setup your banking system before joining the EU since it's a multi year process oh also what about your defence? You wouldn't have any military. The austerity Scotland would go through if they gained independence would make the 14 years of Tory austerity look like a fucking joke.
Which delusional nonsense are you talking about? The Brexit form of Nationalism, where England's nationalism got to decide for the rest of the United kingdom. Or independent state form of Nationalism where each country within the UK can decide for itself.
I mean Iâll be the one to let you know that you canât really moan about Brexit while advocating for it on steroids champ.
But yes, nationalists are closest in tone and the tendency to go for utterly nonsense claims to make their case to Brexiters. The similarities are fairly remarkable - two sides of the same coin really.
No, Welsh people voted to leave - almost a million of them. Over a million Scots did the same. More people in each of London and the South East voted remain than both Wales and Scotland combined
By contrast, 1.5 million Londoners voted to leave.
Perhaps grow up a bit, stop relying on delusional bullshit about âcolonistsâ (as you put it in another comment) or your idiotic âno true Welshmanâ and âevery Englishmanâ waffling and respect the fact that in a democracy, sometimes we donât win and get what we want.
No literally Welsh citizens voted to leave⊠the valleys being one of the largest brexit voting areas. They are quite Welsh.
Right now I think independence is honestly a terrible idea.. no actual plans in a world that is becoming extremely hostile. As a Welshman we need to be more united than ever. The uk was powerful and wealthy because it was united not divided.
As a Welshman, we need independence. We need to secure our borders, water and our land are extremely valuable in a future of climate change. England has no future except as a dry desert.
literally we are so closely linked it would be disasterous finacially to untangle... your statement like all independence claims holds no water, as its just a statement with no actual idea of what independence means realitically and finacially for wales... no discussion about defence... afterwhich would literallty have no nuclear deterant, no talk about where actual money would come from, or how we would need to fund things...apart from... selling water. and in about 10 years england will have more reseviours than you can shake a stick at.
We have america, china and russia desperatly trying to push indepence, so they have a weaker world power to overcome.
No, I mean your line of thinking is demented, about Wales - as it exists today - being merely a colony of England, rather than a member of a country that is a union of countries. As well as the notion that all the other nations of the union will be somehow better off if they become independent.
Tax surplus/deficit of each nation:
England: ÂŁ40-60 billion net surplus
Scotland: ~ÂŁ14 billion net deficit (even accounting for North Sea oil and gas
Wales: ~ÂŁ16 billion net deficit
Northern Ireland: ~ÂŁ11 billion net deficit
Each of these nations would be crippled if they left the UK. Not to mention each of their largest trading partners is the UK. This gets worse when you look at trade.
Scotland: ~60% of their trade is with the UK
Wales: ~60% of their trade is with the UK
NI: ~50% of their trade is with the UK
In addition to that certain EU countries want to discourage their own separatist movements, the best way to do that is to block separatist entry into the EU.
Why would those countries accept another countries debt? This type of thing was answered during the Scottish independence referendum, the same with currency etc.
Be interesting when all of them cut the corporate tax rate like Ireland to become a back door for tax evasion then it becomes a race to the bottom as they three Celtic nations compete with each other for that.
As someone relatively left wing who already loathes Irelands economic policyâs effect on European economics the idea of more of them is incredibly annoying.
This argument is nonsense because England dictates the majority of tax rates in the entire UK and therefore Scotland, then takes that money and gives a portion of it to the Scottish government. There are much poorer countries in the EU than Scotland and with control over their own taxes they could choose to end the death spiral that Thatcher put us all on that England seem determined to continue all the way into dystopian wealth inequality hell.
I swear unionist talking points require you to disengage your brain before speaking. Scotland's continuing existence (and Wales') prove they have self sustaining economies.
And what do you even mean by self-sustaining economies anyway? Countries are just places where people live through accident of birth and thusly they simply make do because that is necessary to survive. If people can physically survive here (and they obviously can), then the economy is self-sustaining.
Then why are both Scotland and Wales lavished with huge block grants from Westminster to enable them to function. Essentially England pays for their continued existence.
Then why are both Scotland and Wales lavished with huge block grants from Westminster to enable them to function.
The money is pretty much the absolute minimum Westminster thinks it can get away with sending to Scotland and Wales.
It is a necessary function because neither Scotland nor Wales has their own currency. Without it there literally would be no money in Scotland or Wales (or not for very long as what there is is hoovered up by tax).
Essentially England pays for their continued existence.
You have it quite wrong. Even if the Scottish and Welsh government didn't exist there would have to be a fiscal transfer from the central government just to provide cash for use.
But if you really have convinced yourself that England pays for Scotland and Wales then you should consider voting for a party which will eject them out of the union.
Scotland and Wales trade less with the entirety of Europe than they do with England alone. They have little to offer Europe that requires sea transit that they can't get cheaper within the continent.
Not only that, but the ascesion could drag on for years. You should look at how long it usually takes to join the EU. A decade? Not even unlikely.
The debt-to-GDP would be absolutely insane. I don't think you quite have a grasp on how much the spending would need to be cut to make up for the lost revenue subsidy from England.
Because the English taxpayer pays in more to the Union than is spent, because it quite literally is used to subsidise the rest. Scotland gets roughly ÂŁ2,500 more public spending per person than England, while Wales gets about ÂŁ1,933 more and Northern Ireland about ÂŁ2,631 more.
So how you think England would be worse off I don't know, that's rather naive. It would actually provide more breathing room, as England likely chooses to join the EU itself and would be allowed in sooner due to it's financial situation that wouldn't be the same for Scotland and Wales.
Everyone quoting the Welsh deficit as proof independence is impossible should look at what it actually measures, and at the UK's own books.
TLDR: You havent seen the correct numbers as they are seldom discussed in any discusson on Welsh Independence.
The deficit figures come from estimates of Wales as a region inside the UK, not accounts of Wales as a state. Welsh GDP is systematically undercounted, profits from Welsh water, energy and retail are booked at London head offices, and Crown Estate revenues from the Welsh seabed, including some of the best offshore wind assets in Europe, flow straight to the Treasury.
Meanwhile the spending side charges Wales for things it didn't choose. HS2 was classed as an "England and Wales" project, so Wales was allocated the cost and got zero benefi. Add a population share of Trident and debt interest on borrowing Wales had no say over.
The UK borrowed ÂŁ132bn last year, has run a deficit in roughly 60 of the last 70 years, and carries ÂŁ2.9 trillion of debt with ÂŁ110bn a year in interest, more than the entire defence budget. Nobody calls the UK unviable. Borrowing is how every modern state operates. The difference is the UK controls its own levers, and Wales just gets handed a share of the bill.
Once you strip out allocated shares of UK debt interest, big-power defence spending and legacy pension liabilities, an independent Wales would open with a gap of about ÂŁ2.6bn, roughly 3.4% of GDP. For comparison, the UK itself borrowed 4.3% of GDP last year, so the country told it's too poor to exist would start with a smaller deficit than the state telling it that.
Meanwhile the spending side charges Wales for things it didn't choose. HS2 was classed as an "England and Wales" project, so Wales was allocated the cost and got zero benefi. Add a population share of Trident and debt interest on borrowing Wales had no say over.
Except for the Welsh MPs in Parliament, of course.
Then you fundamentally misunderstand what democracy means I'm afraid. Obviously the representatives of a minority of the nations' population are unable to carry a vote purely on their numbers; otherwise we wouldn't be a democracy at all. Wales has slightly greater representation in Parliament than their population would generally dictate; there is no democratic deficit there whatever. One should not expect a minority to be able to carry votes in the national parliament of a unitary state.
One could see greater devolution of powers to the nations, or veto powers for things that were seen to be solely affecting a particular nation within the state, and that might be a benefit that we can avail ourselves of. I'm a fan of Lord Lisvane's Acts of Union Bill which sought to reorganise the UK constitution and would have expanded the competencies devolved to the Senedd, but the core principle that Welsh MPs would not be able to carry a vote in Westminster themselves would naturally remain.
My point was that Wales might as well send MPs to Mars for all the good they can do in Westminster.
I'm not disputing how unitary states count votes, I'm disputing the conclusion that this counts as Wales having a democratic voice. A voice that can never change an outcome isn't a voice, it's an audience seat.
Wales has voted against the winning UK government in the majority of postwar elections and received it anyway. Proportionate representation in a chamber where you're permanently outvoted 12 to 1!
As for your second paragraph, If there were no democratic deficit whatever, there'd be nothing for Lisvane's bill to fix, a bill died in the Lords like every federalising proposal before it.
That's the nationalist argument in miniature, the union's own reformers keep proposing the remedy and the union keeps declining to take it.
At some point the options genuinely on offer are the status quo or the exit, because the middle path keeps getting strangled at birth.
My point was that Wales might as well send MPs to Mars for all the good they can do in Westminster.
I'm not disputing how unitary states count votes, I'm disputing the conclusion that this counts as Wales having a democratic voice. A voice that can never change an outcome isn't a voice, it's an audience seat.
Of course that's a democratic voice. No voice in a democracy, acting alone or in small numbers, can carry a decision. That's how it works. That literally is the fundamental principle of a democracy. If Welsh MPs could carry a Westminster vote by themselves the UK would not be a democracy.
You could say that you wish nobody living outside Wales had any democratic input into what goes on there and that's a less objectionable position, but saying that the Welsh have no democratic voice in the UK is utterly and completely absurd.
As for your second paragraph, If there were no democratic deficit whatever, there'd be nothing for Lisvane's bill to fix, a bill died in the Lords like every federalising proposal before it.
Lacking federalism does not mean we lack democracy. Lisvane's proposing a politically savvy reorganisation of the UK constitution to encourage nationalism into quiescence, but there's nothing really more ideal from a democratic point of view about it.
That's the nationalist argument in miniature, the union's own reformers keep proposing the remedy and the union keeps declining to take it.
At some point the options genuinely on offer are the status quo or the exit, because the middle path keeps getting strangled at birth.
Yeah nationalists were saying the same thing before the Senedd was formed in the late 90s. Funny how that gets forgotten so quickly.
Democracy purely as the rule of a majority is not how modern democracies work. While majority rule is the primary mechanism for making decisions and electing representatives, virtually all modern democratic nations operate as liberal democracies (or constitutional democracies). This means the power of the majority is intentionally limited by a framework designed to protect individuals and ensure fair governance.
In my opinion the issue here is that the idea of the United Kingdom being a 'voluntary union of equal nations' needs of that fair governance in order to persist. The fact that England has no governing body or national parliament aside from the UK organs speaks volumes of this. In the end, this 'democracy' as the rule of the many merely means that England and the English can dictate what happens in any other country of the union without their representatives having much to do about it. This is hardly a 'union of equal nations'.
So now your argument is they should remain in the union because that's a quicker route back into the EU? Hahahahaha! It doesn't work like that. If you break it, you pay for it.
"So how you think England would be worse off I don't know, that's rather naive." So in other words, all of this is good news for England. So why are you guys all complaining? It's about the flag, isn't it? đ
(Remove the AI bolding before you post. It's fine that you're using an LLM but at least make some effort to cover it up.)
So now your argument is they should remain in the union because that's a quicker route back into the EU?
Not what I said. I think you completely missed my point, lol.
 So in other words, all of this is good news for England. So why are you guys all complaining? It's about the flag, isn't it?
Not English, but some on this Island just so happen to believe that after hundreds of years of getting closer and uniting, many of us going south of the border and actually having experiences with eachother and not wanting to divide ourselves up. Unionism isn't just "for the flag", there's real reasons from unity of a population, economic benefits, strategic security, internation relevance for trade agreements etc.
As for why the English stomach the higher tax burden, it seems because they want to preserve the above rather than it die out just for them to have more cash.
(Remove the AI bolding before you post. It's fine that you're using an LLM but at least make some effort to cover it up.)
I wasn't aware Reddit added all these lovely features for me to put emphasis on things that are the centre of my point, just for it to be seen by someone as only possible by AI.
If you're not away you can do this on Reddit, click the Aa button below, or sometimes above. Because I'm not sure why else you'd assume the use of bold = AI unless you though it's because it can only be pasted in, lol.
Demographics and economic reality should mean that we don't reach that point. There are EU countries that would be very against allowing countries which have recently seceeded to join the EU, especially with their potential economic outlook when out on their own.
Northern Ireland I can see rejoining Ireland at some point, which is more likely to be a success (or at least not a failure) because they would be 'annexed' into a country that already exists, is in the EU, and has pre-existing national systems, institutions, and infrastructure to be plugged into. Scotland and Wales don't have that.
Have you ever heard of The Troubles? Not saying reunification is impossible, but both Irelands would need to resolve that opposition before it could ever be achieved.
The biggest thing stopping a united Ireland is the Irish. And I don't mean that in a nasty way. There's just a very long standing very bloody fued between north and south.
The irony of complaining about leaving the EU while pushing for what would essentially be brexit on steroids is hilarious. The UK exports 42% of it's goods to the EU while Scotland exports 60% of it's goods to the UK. Scotland trying to join the EU common market and all the trade barriers with the UK that come with that would be complete chaos for scotland. Would make brexit look like a walk in the park
The current UK does not have a hard border with Ireland. If England buys a lot of Scottish things they will be affected too. There isnât going to be a hard boarder.
Of course there will be. Northern Ireland only got an exception after years of negotiating and because it's physically separate from the mainland. How are you going to restrict EU nationals entering England (and vice-versa) without a hard border?Â
Living 5 miles from the border as I do you'll also have to appreciate how many Scottish people working across the border in places like Carlisle and Newcastle will lose their jobs as a result.Â
The Borders and Dum Gal will never vote for Indy and if it does happen- they will pulled out of the UK against their will, most likely Edinburgh too. Ironic, eh?! A hard border will have to happen eventually if an independent Scotland joined the EU. I really canât see any advantages to this at all. I live in Scotland and all I can see is Brexit on steroids. I am wondering though, if this is all to divert our attention away from something elseâŠ.
Hmmm.
 Even the SNP won't talk about what it really means to rip the country apart in practice. They try and avoid that kind of detail wherever possible.
According to an article in the Irish Times this week, the Republic of Ireland political elites don't really want it to happen either.Â
And there isn't the support for it in Wales.Â
It won't be as neat and tidy as you seem to think anyway, that's for sure
Support skews heavily to younger people, with a majority of under 35s in favour of Welsh Independence and up to 72% among 25 to 34 year olds (when you exclude don't knows). This poll puts support at 41% of decided voters.
Statista doesn't show sources so its hard to compare to the data you posted, however the trend shows increasing support for Welsh Independence over time.
I didn't say it was enough today. But one of those two groups is joining the electoral roll and one is dying off. You don't need a crystal ball to see how that plays out over 15 years.
This assumes political attitudes donât change with age, which given whatâs happened to the generation that spent the 60s being overwhelmingly progressive seems like a very bold thing to claim.
Some will I am sure. If that will be a meaningful number of course remains to be seen.
I'd argue that with a growing population of Welsh Speakers and the continuing trend of support for independence among the under 35's the numbers will be there in 10-20 years. But thats just a projection of course.
Sure, but the issue youâve got is just the hard reality of independence versus the fantasy that this stuff relies on.
No nationalist movement on the planet makes the only real unassailable argument: âyouâll be poorer but itâll be worth it because weâll have sovereigntyâ, as it just doesnât work with any vaguely rational voter.
Because the UK has some of the most disproportionately unrepresentative elections on the planet.
We use a first past the post system, instead of something like single transferrable vote.
Basically, if you vote for one of the smaller parties, your vote essentially wont matter in the grand scheme and gets tossed. the bigger parties have massive advantage and hardly ever have to achieve a majority to win. no majority, just be the biggest party on the day. but say you win with 37% of the vote (not an uncommon estimate.) that means that 63% of your constituency did not vote for you.
'SNP SNP SNP'... give it a rest eh, Independence is bigger than a political group. You need to try harder this time, we see through your crap. It's not 2014.
Typical British attitude. Just because you view them as tiny and worthless doesn't mean the rest of us do. And then you wonder why they want to leave you. You're like the abusive partner "Yeah, leave. See if I care. No-one else will have you!"
Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have a net deficit (meaning they spend more than they take in taxes) consistently and are basically funded by the east and south east of England. They also spend about between 110% and 125% per capita on their populations in public services.
Independance is going to bring enormous financial burdens to Dublin, Edinburgh and Cardiff and those independance parties cannot hide that fact so they avoid it at all cost.
Any notion that England would be a benevolent former partner is wishful thinking, everything will be paid for by the new countries, pensions, benefits, nhs, everything.
Not to mention that Ireland has no military to speak off and England will withdraw all military bases from those countries including rather profitable defence contracts.
Wales and Scotland will almost certainly have no currency and will not be invited into the EU as net takers.
No NATO coverage and no trade as they will have no currency.
Wishful thinking to win votes from a naive public
Except its not "fine then" we would all be much worse off and have less influence in the world. If we really must have independance parties with a one policy attitude then let's at least be honest with the electorate - Westminster will never allow this to happen, you can have all the votes and parades and marches you like but you would be bankrupt and unable to fund your hospitals, police, fire and councils there will not be the EU riding to the rescue to pick up the bills for the next 20 years and people will lose out whichever side of the border your on so....let's just not bow to Moscow's will shall we?
Ironically Moscow wants to keep the UK united. Why would Moscow want a United Ireland, for example? Why would it want a strong independent independent Scotland back in the EU?
Moscow wants the break up of the UK, as do their friends in Iran. As neatly evidenced by a massive chunk of the âScottishâ nationalist accounts on social media going dead when Iranâs internet went down.
Removing one of only two major European powers to present a genuine threat to your ability to project power makes absolute sense for Moscow.
Is this a joke? Seriously, Scotland isnât going to be a strong independent country. Itâs going to be a struggling country trying to get it economy back on track
I'm afraid Moscow wants anything that weakens what it sees as its enemies (even if they are really not interested in being an enemy) and that includes dissolving the union. A united Ireland is no threat to it as it has no military to speak of. Scotland would be devastated by independance without a currency and decades away from being eligible to join the EU let alone being allowed to join, being out of NATO means the north Atlantic is also weaker. The union means all countries are stronger together.
Yeh, stuff England and your supposed charity. All you got is âyouâd be worse offâ. We donât want England and your supposed funding is a systemic lie and oversimplification. You are desperate for this union as you reap the rewards from it.
Ah, and now weâre on to the usual nationalist fallback when fiscal reality sets in: âif we cost you so much, then why donât you just kick us outâ. Leaving aside the bad faith, whatever is said will be turned into a pro-independence grievance bullshit that makes you people absolutely useless as valuable interlocutors to be engaged with, some things are more important and worthwhile than money.
Oh, and before you say it, yes that same argument can apply to independence, which is fine. Itâs simply that no nationalist movement has the spine to make the argument that âyouâll be poorer but itâll be worthwhile because sovereigntyâ as they know it absolutely bombs with the average voter.
Ah yes, whereas âyes, the EU will magically ignore the domestic political dynamics of major member states, as well as completely suspending its normal membership criteria just to somehow spite Englandâ definitely isnât weird cope from seething oddballs who seem to obsess over breaking up the UK.
Because they offer barely any benefit, one of the countries voted brexit, they have no army Navy airforce. They would be in massive debt after leaving the UK and wouldn't be able to contribute to the EU Economically. Why would the EU want another two net drains?
They both run at a loss and need English money to keep from going under. The EU isnât going to be accepting the cost of running those countries with open arms and a smile on their face.
They will of course. The EU is about more than economics. Of course all the Brits will laugh at this. And that's fine. They voted for Brexit. So let them laugh. The EU will be richer with a united Ireland and Scotland. It's up to Wales what they do. They voted to leave during Brexit, so it's their democratic right to stay with England if they want.
The EU is going to be fucked, the French canât decide on pension and welfare spending and Germany have ruined their industrial base. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, that you tools think leaving the Union of several hundred years and shared ancestry, largest trading partner of which your vastly net beneficiaries.
All these nations will get lumped with their share of the debt (how itâs calculated who knows but on a population size basis would be somewhat fair without going into the realistic nitty and gritty). Whatâs the plan after that when thereâs zero chance you can pay the deficit? No more hand outs, you now have a say in how the country is run at a full 100% instead by population proportion.
Why do people say "Largest trading partner" as if it's a kind of charity? Surely that works both ways. What do you think they're trading? Haggis? And why would an independent Scotland stop the trade? A hard border? The UK's biggest trading partner is the US, followed by Germany, Netherlands, China and then Ireland. I think you have a hard border with China and it's around 5000 miles away.
England has one of the biggest armed forces in the world with its Navy and airforce, and is the sixth biggest economy... Wales and Scotland would be in enormous debt if they left the Union, nothing like what Slovenia was in early 2000s, and with a much poorer economy. What could they offer the eu
Where are you gonna hold all the subs or train your pilots and Navy? England has not had an armed force since before 1707. Last time I checked it was called the British army.
All debts were raised in London and England currently owns over ÂŁ1 trillion in debt by your logic.
So both Scotland and Wales are going to walk away debt free.
Rejoining the EU isnt an option for them. They are a drain on resources for whoever has them as they cant stand alone and they dont meet any of the criteria to pass the process of entering the EU and then guess what, even if they do.. they're just replacing the UK with a bigger version. You cant be anti UK and also pro EU.
You are either pro both or anti both as they're the same goddamn thing on different scales lol
Hahahaha! Irony of ironies. And the larger northern cities follow. Soon there's nothing left but Essex and all the taxi drivers living in Kent with their union jacks... oh wait! I get it now! That's why they're all upset! It's the end of the Union Jack!
Wales voted to leave the EU. Plus itâs very unlikely that either Scotland or Wales will meet the economic requirements for EU membership. Not to mention the fact that Spain will do everything to block their entry since it would vitalise some of their own nationalist movements.
I think moving to a confederacy arrangement post independance would make sense, with things such as defense shared across the isle (if indeed independance is this will of the people). Albeit, the majority of funding would come from Westminster, but Wales and Scotland couldn't remain agnostic to defence in the face of growing global threats.
âResearch suggests that English-born residents and retirees living in Wales contributed significantly to the country's 52.5% Leave vote in the 2016 EU referendum.â
If you dont like English people or want to leave the union then I dont care, but acting like OAPs retiring in the countryside are invaders is pathetic. They bought a house, thats it. Hardly 'coloniser' behaviour
Hundreds of thousands of people moving from one country to another is colonisation. The only reason they can do so is there is not immigration control. If that happened to you from another country you would be up in arms. Whatâs worse is that those hundreds of thousands put additional massive strain on the local healthcare and social services.
I donât have any particular feelings to English people. I just donât want millions of them in my country.
So the only one actually having a chance of joining the EU is Northern Ireland the other two would not be able to meet the criteria to actually join
So Scotland would collapse as it uses more money than it makes (oh and loss of ship building from the Royal Navy)
Northern Ireland would probably takeout Ireland as it uses more than it makes
And Wales would probably not reached the threshold for a vote
On the other hand, England would have a lot of the deadweight cut away
You really are deluded lol, you have no idea how joining the EU works because if you did you'd know that Scotland, Wales and Ireland would not immediately be allowed to join
Spain for a start would almost certainly vetoe and even if it didn't, none of those countries are anywhere economically stable enough to be considered a viable member
Joining the EU doesn't happen overnight, it takes years
So questions, Scotland and Wales will need hard borders, roads, trains. I assume that will be paid for by? Military bases and hardware I assume Scotland will just what? Say it's in that country and keep it? English owned companies now with increased costs?Â
Nobody gets into the EU immediately. Youâll have a huge deficit to balance without English funding which will be a political nightmare. Itâs going to have to include cuts to social care, healthcare and tuition at the very least.
Youâll have to get around vetos from other countries with separatist movements who donât want to encourage the behaviour.
Youâll need to prove that youâre a reliable economy without English money keeping things running.
If you actually are accepted into the EU, it will be at the expense of at least one, maybe two generations of Scots living standards.
Erm, it would be devastating for Scotland and especially Wales. The vast majority of their trade is done with England, and this would throw a barrier in that trade. Essentially just like brexit did, but far worse.
You do realise this is completely false right, scotland runs about a 12% deficit of spending compared to its own income, Wales around 19% and NI higher.
They would be asked to assume a share of the national debt - which if they refused would likely mean a "junk" credit rating. So borrowing would be hard.
They would neither meet the EU requirements on fiscal stability or likely make it past spain's veto vote. 60% of Scottish trade is with England and a similarly high proportion for Wales, so a hard border there would suck for everyone.
Independence this way is just a bad idea - transitioning to a more federal - nation - self governing model for the UK as a whole would be far less damaging for all the nations as a whole.
I've not even spoken about defense as a part of this - England would retain it's permanent seat on the U.N council but the newly independant nations would not.
They don't meet the criteria of simply rejoining the EU. Either of them. We have gone through this already in Scotland. They have yet to show a semblance of a plan to exist after independence.
The vote wouldn't change from the previous vote in 2014, I'm sick and tired of this nationalist party not understanding it was a one off vote. Deal with the result.
I donât think they would just join the EU. In a post-Trump world and with increasing aggression, the EU needs a strong UK because they are strategically important. We are not in the same world now where the EU wanted to punish the uk. The stakes are too high and there is a lot of movement on negotiating a better more collaborative relationship (youth mobility for example).
Scotland and wales would be financial drains on the EU requiring a lot of development aid which is currently provided by Westminster. Scotlands debt is significant, so they would not just get a free pass into the EU and Euro without major economic reforms, which would inevitably mean cuts to public services and the loss of perks like free education.
That leads to brain drain, which is often not considered in any of these discussions. A significant chunk of Scotland want to stay in the UK. How many of them will remain in their countries during a generational economic crisis when they can hop across the border?
That then leads to the need for migration to replace lost taxation, as we have seen from England and other European countries, that doesnât usually end well politically. Donât forget Wales voted for Brexit.
Ah yes, great prosperity beckons for the Welsh as they rejoin the eu. Their booming economy, the loss of subsidised living from the English. Saddled with huge debt and the need for national security. Only prosperity from here on out.
Not guaranteed, and certainly not an easy or quick path. Despite barely disguised hostility towards the UK from parts of the EU, some EU countries have their own separatist issues. Say Scotland breaks from the UK and joins the EU, what is stopping the Basque County doing the same. France and Italy have similar issues.
Even on the remote chance that the home nations are allowed to join the EU, Wales and Scotland would experience a huge brain drain to England as most of their trade is with us. Brexit was stupid. This is insanity
Happy days ahead? Delusional as hell. 60% of Scottish exports are to England, good luck sorting that mess out. The EU isnât some magic ticket, do you think theyâll just fund everything overnight? And whoâs to say Scotland would even be let in so soon after leaving?
And donât get me started on Wales, how are they even going to support themselves? they have an aged population, little remaining industry and are still very agricultural.
The only one with a genuine chance is Northern Ireland. But even theyâd struggle over pension funding etc
No, it would be catastrophic for every country involved, quite literally the only people who benefit from this are nationalist right wing power grabbers and Russia.
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u/flipping-cricket Sep 14 '26
Fucking Brexit.